It's Kegging Time 2019

[kmar92]

13 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

They probably wouldn't handle the pressure rating of the kegs.

I have seen pressure vessels with screw on lids so from an engineering viewpoint it is probably doable, but I suspect that cost would be the main factor preventing it.

[Popo the Reprobate]

There are these @kmar92.

Old Rheem/Coca Cola kegs.

 

[ChristinaS1]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:22 PM, Smash said:

Keg dispensing nightmare continues.
Since I've owned my keg (2 years), I've yet to have a good pour. Tried a few different things but to no avail. It pours 50/50 head to beer but the beet is flat, after carbonating and pouring at 12psi set and forget. Fridge is set to 2 degrees but not sure what the beer itself is. 19l keg, around 2.5-3m of 5mm id line. Tried a pluto gun, then a tap in the fridge door, and recently added a flow control disconnect (https://www.kegland.com.au/flow-control-ball-lock-disconnect-flow-restrictor.html), but it still pours at 50/50 with flat beer.  There isn't heaps of pressure when it comes out, probably takes about 6 seconds to fill a 325ml glass. I've had the C02 bottle for a little while, could it be a lack of C02 getting through the beer and just the top part of the keg? Could there be something stuck inside the dip tube? Should I get longer line? Anyone have any thoughts on a fix or issues with my system? Thanks heaps guys!

Sounds similar to what happened to me for the first six months I was kegging, except I was force carbonating. Took forever to carb up, even after a couple of days at 35-40PSI, and it was still quite flat after that, but with lots of foam on pouring. Just found the leak recently, quite by accident, at a connector.

You said you have had your CO2 bottle for a little while, but what does that mean? How big is your tank and how often do you have to replace it?

Not sure I would have been aware I must have a leak had I 1.) not been attempting to force carbonating, or 2.) had I had bought a larger tank. My tank is just 5 pounds. The gauge showing how much gas was left in the tank would go down noticeably after a couple of days at high pressure. A bigger tank might have made this more difficult to notice, plus I would not have been having to buy more as often.

Cheers,

Christina.

[iBooz2]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:01 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

But I am a keg blowing virgin.

Yes @Shamus O'Sean that sounds almost criminal.

Therefore I hereby sentence you to six months constant brewing and twelve months hard drinking.

Could have / should have been 150 lashes but that's been sentenced and made famous already. 

Cheers - AL

[Shamus O'Sean]

So more of the same @iBooz2.  That's hardly a penalty.

Not sure I can convert the sentence into a flashy brew name.

[Titan]

Just keg my XPA today and got 2 tallies out of it as well. Tasted what was left in the bottling wand and its dry. This is most likley due to my low mash temperature of 62. I normally mash at 68 with a mashout at 72, but have had issues with fg and residual sweetness. Next brew i will up the mash to 64 and see if that gives the desired result.

[Pezzza]

8 minutes ago, Titan said:

Next brew i will up the mash to 64 and see if that gives the desired result.

I like 64 Titan - think I first saw @Ben 10 Benny using 64 deg C.... and am happy for good attenuation... seems to be good...

But I also have made lovely full bodied AG Ales at 66-68 as well....

[Smash]

On 5/30/2020 at 2:10 AM, Otto Von Blotto said:

They probably wouldn't handle the pressure rating of the kegs.

I'm not sure about that. If it wasn't carbonated then it wouldn't foam up at all. The 6 seconds to pour a glass sounds like plenty enough pressure to carbonate it. More likely if it is stuffed it's the other way and putting too much pressure in it. 

I don't think this is an issue of flat or significantly under carbonated beer. When this happens in kegs it just pours like water, minimal foaming if any. It's tasting flat because all the gas is coming out of solution in the heap of foam being poured. There's obviously a reasonable amount of gas in the beer for this to occur. Personally I suspect the most likely cause is just warm taps. If I went to pour a beer on mine with the flow control opened up fully and the taps warm, I'd get a heap of foaming initially as well. I can't really do much about this other than expensive glycol chiller setups. The font fan in the kegerator helps by cooling the portion of beer lines in the font though. 

@Smash try pouring a second beer immediately after the first one and see if the problem persists once the tap is cold. If it doesn't then that's almost certainly the problem. If it does then the problem is obviously elsewhere as well. The gas is definitely all through the beer though, it doesn't just sit on top. 

First test as per your comments @Otto Von Blotto . First image is first pour, second is second pour. Last image is the beer line after the 2 pours. Looks like its an issue before the tap! I'll try giving the beer out disconnect a blast of C02 next. 

[Pezzza]

Is there any way of just getting a Pluto Gun hooked to the keg itself.. and pouring direct - from the keg - without any intervening fittings?

Seems like  you have kegerator or whatever - through the wall fittings....

I have not got my tap thing going yet - I just have kegs and taps that all live just in the Freezer....

@Red devil 44 Red - maybe if @Smash could get all the lines and the pluto gun - in the cooling facility - and then try a pour in there?

The less fittings that might complicate things....

[Smash]

Put about 5 second of C02 into the out tube to dislodge anything, as per your idea @Red devil 44. I'll wait 30 before seeing what the beer is like. 

20 hours ago, ChristinaS1 said:

Sounds similar to what happened to me for the first six months I was kegging, except I was force carbonating. Took forever to carb up, even after a couple of days at 35-40PSI, and it was still quite flat after that, but with lots of foam on pouring. Just found the leak recently, quite by accident, at a connector.

You said you have had your CO2 bottle for a little while, but what does that mean? How big is your tank and how often do you have to replace it?

Not sure I would have been aware I must have a leak had I 1.) not been attempting to force carbonating, or 2.) had I had bought a larger tank. My tank is just 5 pounds. The gauge showing how much gas was left in the tank would go down noticeably after a couple of days at high pressure. A bigger tank might have made this more difficult to notice, plus I would not have been having to buy more as often.

Cheers,

Christina.

Thanks Christina! Where abouts was the connection that was leaking? Seems like a simlar issue with my system. I've only got a 2.6kg bottle, probably replaced it 1 and a half years ago (I havent used it much recently!) 

[Smash]

1 minute ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Is there any way of just getting a Pluto Gun hooked to the keg itself.. and pouring direct - from the keg - without any intervening fittings?

Seems like  you have kegerator or whatever - through the wall fittings....

I have not got my tap thing going yet - I just have kegs and taps that all live just in the Freezer....

@Red devil 44 Red - maybe if @Smash could get all the lines and the pluto gun - in the cooling facility - and then try a pour in there?

The less fittings that might complicate things....

Cheers for the reply! I used to have a pluto coming straight off about 3m of line that stayed inside the fridge to stay cold on pour, but with the same outcomes. I only have a cheapish diconnect to line to tap. Could the disconnect be an issue?

[Pezzza]

2 minutes ago, Smash said:

Cheers for the reply! I used to have a pluto coming straight off about 3m of line that stayed inside the fridge to stay cold on pour, but with the same outcomes. I only have a cheapish diconnect to line to tap. Could the disconnect be an issue?

Well I have had shittt experience with brand new stuff.... nice new keg that lost loadsa gassssss- the PRV - brand new - was bugggggered.

So nothing can be assumed to be in working order.

So - maybe - shout yourself a new Pluto gun - and gas - line - and disconnect - to the CO2 cylinder... OR shout yourself - a new - Pluto Gun and Liquid Disconnect line... brand new... see if it makes a difference....

So you can clearly work out the variables that are not right....

@Red devil 44 Red - I am the most useless Gas Person - mate but Red - you do this for a livin' - mate - so what advice have we got here for Smash??

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah that's bogus. It shouldn't be like that. It may have something to do with it being coiled vertically too. They're usually done horizontally. Since the bubbles are only on one side it could be causing issues having it sitting that way. 

[Smash]

Just poured another, still a 50/50 pour. Just coiled the line around the keg to see what effect it has (photo was after the pour, he seems the bubbles in the line). Might go back to the standard disconnect tomorrow and see how that goes

[Pezzza]

1 minute ago, Smash said:

Just poured another, still a 50/50 pour. Just coiled the line around the keg to see what effect it has (photo was after the pour, he seems the bubbles in the line). Might go back to the standard disconnect tomorrow and see how that goes

Yeah I would be careful with those quick-connects- they can be leakers  - think - @PaddyBrew2 ?Paddy had a some issues -I just use the SS clamps...

[Pezzza]

1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Yeah that's bogus.

what is bogus @Otto Von Blotto ?

[Otto Von Blotto]

28 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

what is bogus @Otto Von Blotto ?

The bubbles in the line. Just a slang term for crap. 

So we can rule out warm taps and angle of coil. Obviously neither is the reason for bubbles in the line. 

[ChristinaS1]

2 hours ago, Smash said:

Put about 5 second of C02 into the out tube to dislodge anything, as per your idea @Red devil 44. I'll wait 30 before seeing what the beer is like. 

Thanks Christina! Where abouts was the connection that was leaking? Seems like a simlar issue with my system. I've only got a 2.6kg bottle, probably replaced it 1 and a half years ago (I havent used it much recently!) 

My leak was in the connection between the gas line and the barbed end disconnect. The hose clamp needed a bit more tightening. I am on my third 5lbs tank of gas since September. Hopefully this last one will last longer, now that I have fixed the leak. 

BTW, the PRV of one of my tanks, which I bought secondhand, was also leaking. Had to replace the lid and the PRVs my LHBS carried were not compatible. 

Cheers,

Christina.

[Smash]

45 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Yeah I would be careful with those quick-connects- they can be leakers  - think - @PaddyBrew2 ?Paddy had a some issues -I just use the SS clamps...

Just got it to test out if they can reduce the flow very well, but it seems to foam up more. Cheers! 

9 minutes ago, ChristinaS1 said:

My leak was in the connection between the gas line and the barbed end disconnect. The hose clamp needed a bit more tightening. I am on my third 5lbs tank of gas since September. Hopefully this last one will last longer, now that I have fixed the leak. 

BTW, the PRV of one of my tanks, which I bought secondhand, was also leaking. Had to replace the lid and the PRVs my LHBS carried were not compatible. 

Cheers,

Christina.

Might check to see if there's a leak around the lid and PRV then. Thanks! 

[Smash]

Lines coiled horizontally still around 50/50 beer to air. Might take apart the basic disconnect tomorrow to see if has some gunk in it that's obstructing the flow

[Pezzza]

20 minutes ago, Smash said:

Lines coiled horizontally still around 50/50 beer to air. Might take apart the basic disconnect tomorrow to see if has some gunk in it that's obstructing the flow

Do yourself a favour - and buy a replicate line Pluto Gun and Gas and Liquid disconnect - same as what you have- and replace - what you have - and see if it makes a difference?

[Titan]

If your using a flow control diconnect then the beer line needs to be a lot shorter than a standard disconnect i think this is your issue. Replace the flow control disconnect with a standard one and see how it goes. 

[Stoobs]

@smash the only time this happens to me is if the beer is over carbonated have you tried to de gas your brew by burping it over 24 hours or even longer to make sure it's not over carbonated, maybe your gauge isn't working correctly ie your 12 psi setting could be higher then you think and your over carbonating your brew

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Stoobs

[Journeyman]

First, how are your lines cut? With duotights the end needs to be pretty much dead straight across - any angle on the end or 'bump' will cause a leak. Kegland have a line cutter that works great for about $4 but a sharp Stanley and care can achieve the same.

Second - IMO to get air like that you have either a leak at the disconnect OR a leak at the tap. The beer is being pushed in at the keg and the moment you turn off the tap there is air being sucked into the line. I can't see anything else doing it like you show - it's the disconnect at the keg (or line end) OR it's the tap end.

And each time you pour you first get a mix of air and beer, whether the tap is cold or not. Turn off the tap and air enters again. You could try getting close to the keg and get someone to pour some beer and listen - I reckon for it to be happening like you say (1st AND 2nd pour) you might see or hear the air being sucked in. I'm thinking it is likely the keg end because I'm having trouble imagining how the air would enter against the beer pressure but you could have a venturi effect at the disconnect sucking the air in..

I got the JG push-in fittings for the taps and ended getting a refund - I think they are poorly made and mine leaked - all of them. If you have push-ins on your tap shanks, get a piece of line and put a mark on it a couple cms from the end. Push it into the duotight and note or mark where it goes to. Then do it with the tap push-in - mine had a clear 2mm or so difference in how far in the line goes at the tap end. I sent pics to the supplier and they refunded me. Now I use cable ties on the tap shanks.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Journeyman

[Smash]

16 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

First, how are your lines cut? With duotights the end needs to be pretty much dead straight across - any angle on the end or 'bump' will cause a leak.

Second - IMO to get air like that you have either a leak at the disconnect OR a leak at the tap. The beer is being pushed in at the keg and the moment you turn off the tap there is air being sucked into the line. I can't see anything else doing it like you show - it's the disconnect at the keg (or line end) OR it's the tap end.

And each time you pour you first get a mix of air and beer, whether the tap is cold or not. Turn off the tap and air enters again. You could try getting close to the keg and get someone to pour some beer and listen - I reckon for it to be happening like you say (1st AND 2nd pour) you might see or hear the air being sucked in. I'm thinking it is likely the keg end because I'm having trouble imagining how the air would enter against the beer pressure but you could have a venturi effect at the disconnect sucking the air in..

I got the JG push-in fittings for the taps and ended getting a refund - I think they are poorly made and mine leaked - all of them. If you have push-ins on your tap shanks, get a piece of line and put a mark on it a couple cms from the end. Push it into the duotight and note or mark where it goes to. Then do it with the tap push-in - mine had a clear 2mm or so difference in how far in the line goes at the tap end. I sent pics to the supplier and they refunded me. Now I use cable ties on the tap shanks.

I cut the lines using a line cutter (https://www.kegland.com.au/tube-cutter-pipe-cutter-2-in-1-for-evabarrier-pex-hdpe-vinyl-tubing.html). Unsure how straight/flush the cuts are though. That's what it seems, I might have a look at the disconnects to see if they leak at all. The standard disconnect I have doesn't need push fittings, so should be less to go wrong. No push fittings anywhere else apart from a one way check valve in the gas line. Has anyone had any issues with keg posts needing replacement? Could they be leaking? Cheers

4 hours ago, Titan said:

If your using a flow control diconnect then the beer line needs to be a lot shorter than a standard disconnect i think this is your issue. Replace the flow control disconnect with a standard one and see how it goes. 

I'll try this tonight, thanks!