Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, headmaster said: Thanks Greeny, I have been meaning to try a traditional saison yeast, will get around to it one day. I do have some supposedly mixed up in my Wildflower house culture that I am fermenting my 2nd golden sour with right now, it has a Dupont strain in there as the main Sac yeast and interestingly it did the classic stall at 1030 there for a while, despite having brett c, pedio, lacto and a giant collection of wild yeasts and bacteria's harvested from around NSW by Topher Boehm who built up this culture for his sours at Wildflower brewing and blending Sounds interesting. You cultured it up from the dregs in the bottle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) Yes I did, took quite some time to get going. Results taste very much like his golden sour, sans the wood character, but you do really need many months of aging for these beers. My first one paused at 1030, then stopped at 1010, but will need several months to head down to closer to 1.000, the bacteria will continue to work very slowly on the remaining higher order sugars. Also quite often off flavours are produced by the brett and pedio that also need months to clean up. As mentioned in another thread, after tasting great, my first one now has an off flavour which could be isovaleric acid but could also be Tetrahydropyridine which gives off a 'mouse like' odour and flavour. Basically smells like a mouse residence. Not that enticing to say the least. But with age this compound is transformed into something very tasty. When I first tried one of these sours, I was amazed at flavours that I had never experience ever before. I was given two vials of his culture through a friend who knows Topher, who very kindly gave him some, they are still sitting in my freezer at the moment cryostored with glycol. Edited January 15, 2019 by headmaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Might have to buy me a bottle and culture it up. Ive only tried a sour once and didn't mind it. Thanks headmaster. Will transfer to a secondary (cube) once it gets low and leave it for a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 23 hours ago, porschemad911 said: If you want 'very red', use 100% Red-X at 1.050 OG with the step mash as per National Homebrew. I'm personally not a huge fan of how this tastes, but with enough hops a red IPA could be pretty good. I'm hearin' ya John. More a hue I'm after than a deep red. I just wanted to avoid sweetness from a grain like CaraAroma, & roasty carryover from grains like roasted barley or black patent etc. Even though this one will be a fail on colour I plan to persist down this path for a little bit out of sheer interest. For my next attempt I'll either use a dash of roasted barley/black patent or really up the CaraRed next time. At least after this brew, I'll know what CaraRed tastes like to know how far I can probably push the weight without creating a cloying sweetness. It's all just a bit of fun learning from my end. Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, Beerlust said: It's all just a bit of fun learning from my end. That's the spirit Lusty! Cheers, John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 Lusty, I'll post the recipe I made on Saturday tomorrow if I remember. The grist contains 200g medium crystal, 50g Caraaroma for a hint of what it brings, and 30g chocolate malt for a more reddish colour. I've used a similar grist a few times before and you don't get any flavour from the darker roasted grains in those sorts of amounts, but you do get the colour without having to use shitloads of lighter crystal type malts such as carared. I could also use roasted barley or black patent, and probably have previously. Once it's on tap I'll post the usual picture so you can check out the colour. Looks pretty good in the hydro sample though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Lusty, I'll post the recipe I made on Saturday tomorrow if I remember. The grist contains 200g medium crystal, 50g Caraaroma for a hint of what it brings, and 30g chocolate malt for a more reddish colour. I've used a similar grist a few times before and you don't get any flavour from the darker roasted grains in those sorts of amounts, but you do get the colour without having to use shitloads of lighter crystal type malts such as carared. I could also use roasted barley or black patent, and probably have previously. Once it's on tap I'll post the usual picture so you can check out the colour. Looks pretty good in the hydro sample though. Your mix sounds good mate to throw the hue. I would definitely appreciate a pic of this brew once you have it in the glass. On the flip-side about CaraRed, I'm not afraid to use larger weights of these lowish EBC (approx. 50) crystal malts in my Pale Ales. It's a fallacy that many of these lowish crystal malts carry heavy sweetness. In all honesty, those around & below this EBC level don't carry a lot of sweetness at all. If you get your hopping balance right when using larger weights of crystal malts around this EBC level you don't get noticeable sweetness, just a fuller malty palate than you would if using more base malt in it's place. It's a contentious subject that I'm happy to accept brewers seem to see differently. Interestingly a few of us managed to convince Capt. to whack about 500gms of CaraMalt (or something equivalent) into a recent brew he has started (I think? ). I'll be interested to hear his thoughts on that once on the pour as I'm certainly an advocate of using these types of crystal grains at these weights if trying to create American styled pale ale & IPA's. Cheers, Lusty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Should be cold crashing the Pale when I get home from work tonight, I'll keg and bottle the lefties Saturday, hopefully have the Saison in the FV saturday afternoon. Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Pretty short cold crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Looked pretty clean when I dry hopped it the other day, just about to go and see what it looks like. Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: Pretty short cold crash I cold "crash" my pale ales for only 2-3 days. I do it mainly to get the beer cold for better C02 absorption on kegging day. The beer cold conditions in the keg & clarifies even further over the period of drinking it. The only beers I bother to cold "condition" prior to kegging are lagers & even then, it's only for a further 7-8 days in the FV usually. Cheers, Lusty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) Yeah I don't leave lagers in the fermenter for ages either, usually between 1.5 and 2 weeks they sit cold before kegging. The rest of the lagering happens in the keg. They always taste better after at least 4 more weeks cold. Ales I give a week to drop as much yeast as I can before kegging without lengthening the process too much, and I never seem to get the muddy first pour that a fair few guys report so it's working well. If that beer is cold crashed tonight it'd be lucky to spend 12 hours cold, just doesn't seem worth it to me. Edited January 17, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 What yeast you using though? US-05 I've noticed lower temps leaves less yeast suspended at the end of fermentation hence being clearer? I was amazed at the last brew I did with Nottingham and that was extremely clear. when I wasn't brewing with tc with US-05, sure cloudy AF.. Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, tja1980 said: What yeast you using though? US-05 I've noticed lower temps leaves less yeast suspended at the end of fermentation hence being clearer? I was amazed at the last brew I did with Nottingham and that was extremely clear. when I wasn't brewing with tc with US-05, sure cloudy AF.. Tristan I'm in agreement. High flocking yeasts definitely help with beer clarity, & given enough time will drop a lot of particulate on their own. The trouble with the real high flocker yeast strains is they often strip a lot of malt & hop derived flavour when they do their thing that improves clarity. Nottingham is a beast of yeast, is ultra reliable, & has very high attenuation. The trouble with that is it strips a lot of hop & malt derived flavour in doing so. I don't use it with my pale ales as a rule because of this. It is very good & well suited with brewing heavier malted, higher ABV, & pseudo lager beers though as the stripping affect is less noticeable & the high attenuation property of the yeast is actually very helpful in these scenarios. Just my 2 cents, Lusty. Edited January 17, 2019 by Beerlust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 US-05 is actually pretty average when it comes to flocculation. Unlike Nottingham which drops like a stone. At the moment I'm using 1056 for American pale ales, 1469 for English ales, stouts and my red, and 2278 for lagers. I always reuse them a heap of times and have noticed the flocculation improves after 3-4 generations for some reason, but it never drops clear overnight. I still give them a helping hand with isinglass though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 @Beerlust not sure I noticed that in the mosaic ale I made with it, I just remember it being a bit dry and a tad over bitter. @Otto Von Blotto yeah I have been thinking about switching over to isinglass, agree with you on not dropping over night , was meant to check it last night but got distracted with the powerball mostly me crying cause one person won 107 million Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: US-05 is actually pretty average when it comes to flocculation. Unlike Nottingham which drops like a stone. Agreed. US-05 is classed as a medium flocker because of this. It's partly why I use it in preference to Nottingham in my pale ales. I've used Nottigham in my pales & made the pseudo-lagers with it & it just seemed to strip the shite out of everything in those styles of beer in direct comparison. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I got rid of my Nottingham. Found US05, 1272 and S04 more to my liking despite them being slower. Floculation wise S04 is on a par and 1272 not far back either. 1272 seems to hold the hop influence quite well. Not as much as US05 though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogdog Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Greeny1525229549 said: I got rid of my Nottingham. Found US05, 1272 and S04 more to my liking despite them being slower. Floculation wise S04 is on a par and 1272 not far back either. 1272 seems to hold the hop influence quite well. Not as much as US05 though. How do you find S04 greeny what does it bring to the table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 I stopped using 1272 because it produced a slight tartness in the beer which I didn't particularly like. Instead of US-05 though I went to 1056 to have all liquid strains going. I'm enjoying the results more with it. I'm gonna go back to S-04 for my porter whenever I brew it. I really enjoyed that recipe with that yeast. Other batches with 1469 came out a little too dry. It suits my stouts but not the porter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tja1980 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Hmmmm have some S-04 in the fridge, how much slower is S-04 don't think I have brewed with that yeast yet. Tristan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 S-04 is a British style yeast, & quite a vigorous fermenter. Produces nice bright beers. It is notorious for being a little sluggish toward the end of primary ferment, even stalling sometimes, but I found if you keep your ferment temp at around 20-21°C it ferments out quite well. Cheers, Lusty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) I removed the chux dry hop bag containing a mix of Cascade, Columbus, Riwaka & Simcoe this morning before work. I squeezed all the aromatic liquid back into the brew. It smelled really awesome actually. It could be a combo to follow up on. If I wasn't in a bit of a hurry to get to work I may well have eaten the chux hop bag rather than binning it! The brew is in cold crash mode now & will be kegged this coming Sunday. I plan to smoke a big hunk of pork shoulder on the day as well so a few pints of this from the keg along with the pork will be bloody terrific I reckon. Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Edited January 18, 2019 by Beerlust 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 46 minutes ago, Beerlust said: S-04 is a British style yeast, & quite a vigorous fermenter. Produces nice bright beers. It is notorious for being a little sluggish toward the end of primary ferment, even stalling sometimes, but I found if you keep your ferment temp at around 20-21°C it ferments out quite well. Cheers, Lusty. +1. Love this yeast and 20C is a great temp for it. Dont listen to the naysayers who deride it. Its a great yeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, grogdog said: How do you find S04 greeny what does it bring to the table For me for english style pales or IPAs with fuggles or goldings type hops its the shit!!! Never had it stall either. Keep it at 20c and you will have an awesome awesome beer. Used it in a stout too and it worked well as well but i preferred the CCA yeast in that. It will also drop like a stone. No real need for finings with S04. Edited January 18, 2019 by Greeny1525229549 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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