What's in your fermenter? 2019

[Hairy]

Looks good.

It really puts the pale in India Pale Ale.

[Pezzza]

2 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Today I put down a Royal Pilsner loosely based on the Royal Lager recipe and advice from @ChristinaS1 and @Otto Von Blotto

.........

All in all. I cannot wait to give this brew a taste.
 

Sounds really good Shamus - really good.  And I just have sampled my first cool-temp-control lager - a Coopers Golden Crown variant - and been very happy.  

What you have done looks great - and fastidious re Temp Control - Wow.  Good stuff. Reckon it should be great.  Look forward to hearing more about it! 

And great we can draw on the experience of experts like Christina and Kelsey!

BB

[Shamus O'Sean]

2 hours ago, The Captain!! said:

@Shamus O'Sean I am a firm believer in the amount of time taken to perfect a recipe or brew a beer, the better it will taste to you. 

The recipe and process look really good. I think you are on a winner there. 

Im looking forward to a photo and tasting notes on the RDWHAHB thread. And the tasting notes better be better than this is good! ha ha ha ha. 

Pick the beer apart. look at your notes from the brew day, really think about the beer and take time to taste it. Then if its good but you think it could be better, brew it again with those adjustments.

Thanks Captain

I am really looking forward to trying this beer.  I will bottle it in about 2-3 weeks and lager it in the garage (Melbourne) over winter. 

I find I never get around to brewing a fine-tuned version of a beer that I make.  I am a brewer who has a list of at least four different drew recipes I want to try.  This list never lets me go back to adjusting a previous beer.  Maybe, once I get a few more brews under my belt and have exhausted the "what I would like to brew" list, I can take the time to go back over previous brews with a view to perfect them.

Cheers Shamus

[Pezzza]

6 hours ago, elLachlano said:

I'm going for surgery tomorrow

Good luck with the Surgery  and the bottling once yer safely back!

[Beer Baron]

2 hours ago, Hairy said:

Looks good.

It really puts the pale in India Pale Ale.

Ha ha ha. Cascadian Dark Ale

[Otto Von Blotto]

Looks good Shamus. Personally I probably wouldn't bother cooling the wort for flameout steeps with Saaz, it's a low AA% hop anyway so extra bitterness would be negligible. I use a flameout addition in my pilsners as well, but it just goes in when the boil is killed. It is accounted for in the recipe but it only adds about 2 or 3 IBUs. 

[Beerlust]

21 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

...I am a brewer who has a list of at least four different drew recipes I want to try.  This list never lets me go back to adjusting a previous beer.  Maybe, once I get a few more brews under my belt and have exhausted the "what I would like to brew" list, I can take the time to go back over previous brews with a view to perfect them.

I know this train well. I've been like this for 7 odd years now & have only re-brewed a handful of beers a second time or more. It's not that I've only made a handful of beers well, it's that as a brewer you always feel you can tweak them a little bit to improve them, thus they never end up the same each time.

As a word of advice, if you're not already, start rating your documented brews in some way. That will help you moving forward particularly when you're perhaps out of ideas & want some inspiration for a good beer.

Good luck in this space Shamus. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

[BlackSands]

Another quick(ish) grains + extract brew...

Kohatu Pale Ale

• 1.7kg Coopers Lager
• 1.5kg LME
• 200g GF Light Crystal Malt
• 200g GF Redback Malt
• 200g GF Wheat Malt
• 100g Sugar
• 10g Moutere Hops @20mins
• 25g Kohatu Hops @5 mins
• 25g Kohatu Hops @FO
• 50g Kohatu Dry Hop
• M42 Yeast

ABV=5.2% / IBU=34

[Hilltop hops]

Put a toucan stout down on Saturday arvo. 1 stout, 1 dark ale, 1kg dextrose and 3 kit yeasts. 6 months too late for this winter! Its currently bubbling away with a giant krausen attempting to escape the fv. 

[BlackSands]

On 5/5/2019 at 7:45 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

This process took soooo long.  Using Pilsner Malt Extract would have been so easy.  But I really want to get a taste of using a large chunk of grains.  Both puns intended.

I can see how some people would very quickly switch from extract brewing to all grain.  The time taken for this brew is comparable to all grain.  However, like some of our partial brewers, I do not have equipment with the capacity to efficiently handle around 6kg of grain. 

Admittedly, because it was my first time, I was probably not the most efficient.  Started at 10:10am and finished (fermenter into freezer) at 3:30pm.  Having so much fun I forgot to have lunch, although I did squeeze in breakfast while I was mashing.  I cleaned as I went so did not have a lot to clean at the end. 

All in all. I cannot wait to give this brew a taste.
 

@Shamus O'Sean - My 50/50 partials, which I do about 75% of the time take around 3 - 3.5hrs so I suspect once you've done a few your workflow will start to become a little more efficient.   One thing that helped with shortening brew day was I actually reduced my boil times down to 30 minutes.  I think this is enough for smaller quantities of fresh grain wort and given the growing body of evidence suggesting DMS is likely a non-issue I'll certainly be sticking with these shorter boils.  So, that's a half hour saved!  I also use an induction cooker which I find get's my 12-15 litres of wort (post sparge) up to a boil pretty quick. 

The first 50/50 partial mash brew I did was a replica of an extract brew I'd done a few weeks earlier.   I was then able to do an A/B comparison.  It wasn't a totally fair test however as the extract version was of course a couple of weeks older.  On first tasting I thought...  they taste exactly the same!      Did I really just spend 3.5 hours for no obvious gain?  However...  after closer scrutiny it soon became apparent that the partial did have a somewhat cleaner and fresher aspect to it.   Months later I did a similar little experiment and compared a partial-mash PA to a half-batch AG version.  I couldn't really pick a difference on this occasion to be honest.  As a result of that I decided not to bother pursuing full AG.  The extra gear required, the space required, the time required and having to handle lager and much heavier quantities of grain just didn't seem justified in my case.  Somewhat ironically, I find I'm doing more 'kits n bits' beers these days and some have been really good!  I'm now questioning the time I usually spend with mashing and boiling etc?   I enjoy the process but as I sit here with my latest extract ale in hand I do wonder if those extra hours are really necessary?  

 

[Beerlust]

24 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

...The extra gear required, the space required, the time required and having to handle lager and much heavier quantities of grain just didn't seem justified in my case.  Somewhat ironically, I find I'm doing more 'kits n bits' beers these days and some have been really good!  I'm now questioning the time I usually spend with mashing and boiling etc?   I enjoy the process but as I sit here with my latest extract ale in hand I do wonder if those extra hours are really necessary?  

Without meaning to be overly critical, there are current flaws within your malt selections & processes that are hindering your ability to realise the full effort(s) you are making in other areas.

No-one else seems to have the balls to say it, but I will because I would personally like to see you reach the potential & standard of beer your current efforts are worthy of producing.

My comments around many of your negative experiences/outcomes are only ever directed around improving the quality of your beer. I don't have any personal agendas.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[BlackSands]

12 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

Without meaning to be overly critical, there are current flaws within your malt selections & processes that are hindering your ability to realise the full effort(s) you are making in other areas.

Such as? According to what authority and based on what evidence? 

Quote

No-one else seems to have the balls to say it...

Perhaps because no-one else shares the same thoughts as you?   

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

You can make great beers with partials or full extract boils. I still do a 50/50 kit and mash beer when i need stocks quickly and am time poor. Allows 2 batches of great beer with 3 hours of work. Time to do a full all grain batch is definitely a killer sometimes. I have found that all grain gives me that extra 10% quality that the extract boils and partials wont give me. For me its worth it. For others maybe not. 

[Pezzza]

Do you All Grainers think that there are some particular STYLES of brew that benefit more from AG rather than KnK(Malt) or Partials?

I have a theory (possibly flawed)... that I would love to have some feedback on.... that the heavier styles such as full bodied Ales, Stouts and Porters could be adequately done with LIQUID malt extracts and augmentation with steeped grains...  but maybe the Lager and Lighter Ales maybe you would get more nuanced excellence from AG... but have yet to test my theory.  Interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

Plus regards critique on people's brews... obviously there are styles and ways of making beer that will deliver excellence... then there is taste.... and I guess the question of what you are actually trying to achieve. 

I had a very good fishing mate who was 'production + cost based' and used Kits n Sugar and drank it out of Plazzi's w a dash of Sars Cordial.  He would refuse other beer.

Was very happy with his own (what I perceived as not so flash brew myself)........ and caught a lot of fish and took me on plenty good reef trips so we all just drank our own ; )

 

[Pezzza]

5 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Looks good Shamus. Personally I probably wouldn't bother cooling the wort for flameout steeps with Saaz, it's a low AA% hop anyway so extra bitterness would be negligible. I use a flameout addition in my pilsners as well, but it just goes in when the boil is killed. It is accounted for in the recipe but it only adds about 2 or 3 IBUs. 

Kelsey do you advocate throwing in Saaz at the very end at flameout to avoid loss of aromatics?  i.e. don't throw in any earlier or risk losing some of the lovely aroma it can provide?

[Otto Von Blotto]

It's not something I've tested. I don't find pilsners to be heavy on the hop aromatics like an IPA for instance, so I find for my own tastes that my hop schedule with them gives me what I want. 

As for AG benefiting styles, my first AG was a pale ale and it was noticeably fresher and less muddied in flavour than extract versions. I had a English bitter at a party once that I immediately picked up extract twang in. My first AG lagers were miles better than the kit ones I did but they were also helped by proper temperature control and better yeast management so not really a fair comparison. For me personally, dark ales and stouts etc. would probably be the only styles where the difference wouldn't be as noticeable. 

Of course, it all depends on the quality of the brewing. A well made kit or extract beer will be better than a poorly brewed AG beer.

 

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

4 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Do you All Grainers think that there are some particular STYLES of brew that benefit more from AG rather than KnK(Malt) or Partials?

I have a theory (possibly flawed)... that I would love to have some feedback on.... that the heavier styles such as full bodied Ales, Stouts and Porters could be adequately done with LIQUID malt extracts and augmentation with steeped grains...  but maybe the Lager and Lighter Ales maybe you would get more nuanced excellence from AG... but have yet to test my theory.  Interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

Plus regards critique on people's brews... obviously there are styles and ways of making beer that will deliver excellence... then there is taste.... and I guess the question of what you are actually trying to achieve. 

I had a very good fishing mate who was 'production + cost based' and used Kits n Sugar and drank it out of Plazzi's w a dash of Sars Cordial.  He would refuse other beer.

Was very happy with his own (what I perceived as not so flash brew myself)........ and caught a lot of fish and took me on plenty good reef trips so we all just drank our own ; )

 

I do definitely agree with you that the benefit of all grain is lessened in dark beers.  That has been my experience. There still is a benefit there but tends to be masked by the heavy malt flavours in my opinion. 

[Beerlust]

12 hours ago, BlackSands said:

According to what authority...

I'm not an authority, let's make that clear. I'm simply a home brewer with 8 or so years of experience & 190+ brews under his belt taking time out to discuss beer brewing & occasionally help others with their home brewing & problems related to that along the way.

12 hours ago, BlackSands said:

Such as?...and based on what evidence? 

Such as posts of yours relating to repeat problems with fermentations, repeat problems with yeasts, repeat problems with infections, repeat problems with off flavours.

12 hours ago, BlackSands said:

Perhaps because no-one else shares the same thoughts as you?   

History says otherwise.

Some find my approach a little confrontational & I'll wear that, but in most instances I'd much rather get straight to the point of things than beat around bush.

It's OK mate, I'll bow out offering any more of my advice to you & leave others to solve the repeat problems you still seem reluctant to acknowledge &/or address.

Best of luck moving forward.

Lusty.

[BlackSands]

10 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

I'm not an authority, let's make that clear. I'm simply a home brewer with 8 or so years of experience & 190+ brews under his belt taking time out to discuss beer brewing & occasionally help others with their home brewing & problems related to that along the way.

Likewise.

Quote

Such as posts of yours relating to repeat problems with fermentations, repeat problems with yeasts, repeat problems with infections, repeat problems with off flavours.

Grossly over-exaggerated.

Quote

History says otherwise.

Evidence?

Quote

 

It's OK mate, I'll bow out offering any more of my advice to you & leave others to solve the repeat problems you still seem reluctant to acknowledge &/or address.

 

Fallacious strawman aside, I'd certainly appreciate that if you wouldn't mind. 

[kenf]

This weeks brews in the fermenter - an AG ESB ( my recipe large fermenter & my first try with Wyeast smack pack), small fermenter - AG British  Bitter using Coopers Premium Ale Malt & Coopers Schooner. The under pressure steel fermenter Coopers Craft Earl Grey IPA.

 I’m currently drinking my Lemon Thyme and Blueberry Saison + I have an AG Golden Ale and a Coopers Craft Californian Riptide Pale Ale. All of which are very different and rather nice!

Edited May 7, 2019 by kenf
Add photos

[porschemad911]

22 hours ago, BlackSands said:

I enjoy the process but as I sit here with my latest extract ale in hand I do wonder if those extra hours are really necessary?  

IMO... They're not necessary.

But if you enjoy the process, want more control over the grain bill and have the time to spare... Keep mashing. I find it fun, but don't do it every batch. 

Cheers, 

John 

[Norris!]

I wonder that all the time. But as John noted, it is about the process and the enjoyment from doing it, but sometimes the ends justifies the means and I cannot be bothered and a 45 min brew it will be! Hahaha. I have always said, if you are making brews you enjoy, then why move on, unless that is what you are looking for.

Cheers

Norris

[Pezzza]

2 hours ago, kenf said:

under pressure steel fermenter

Dear KENF... what is this pressure cooker gadget remodelled into a brew-pot?

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

Looks like a keg using a spunding valve. Have always wanted try that. People who do it rave about it. Ferment in the keg at 12psi. Then put it straight in the keg fridge. Fermented and carbed up at the same time. One guy had a fully carbonated saison and drinking it in 5 days. 

[Pezzza]

26 minutes ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

One guy had a fully carbonated saison and drinking it in 5 days. 

That is outrageous... and festive at the same time!

Not  a lot of maturation in the process though hey