Fail Thread (Mistakes You've Made) 2019

[Otto Von Blotto]

7 hours ago, Gully85 said:

 

My issue is tracking where I'm getting a metallic or medical flavour into my beer. Haven't noticed it until a 'good friend' (arse) pointed it out. Comes down;

1 water chemistry

2 alluminium kettle

3 bottle wand and tube is testy

Some simple fixes some not, well with out spending more money.

Sounds more like a water issue. Is the water you brew with chlorinated?

[Gullys Brewing]

7 hours ago, The Captain!! said:

Have you thought about the amount of sanitiser left in your kegs/bottles at time of packaging?

Yeah, all dried at bottling. Might make adjustments to my process and rule starsan out of the equation 

[Gullys Brewing]

42 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Sounds more like a water issue. Is the water you brew with chlorinated?

Good old adelaide tap water, have been treating with Camden. But yes this is something I was going to address before replacing the kettle. Test out an RO water batch

[Otto Von Blotto]

Could be other minerals in the water causing it, maybe too much iron. I'd try that or distilled water, adding minerals back as needed. 

[Marty_G]

13 hours ago, Beerlust said:

Hi Marty.

I just skimmed over posts since this one of yours so forgive anything I may have missed. To answer your question....ABSOLUTELY (IMHO).

 

Cheers,

Lusty.

Just to clarify, see what i did there, I ALWAYS cold crash. Usually at around 2^o for 3 or 4 days minimum then transfer into a keg. I have also started fining in the keg. I initially thought it made little difference but I can now see that my current beers are much clearer that previous brews. 

[Pezzza]

On 11/20/2019 at 2:52 PM, MUZZY said:

Should I combine the two in the name of science or just make them singularly into 23 litre brews?

I'd do both and add 4kg of LDME.... but hey it's all personal choice hey.  (When I went KnK Full Malt I bought a 20kg back of LDME). 

And then 100g of something nice as a Late Hopper  -   you find the cheapest of.... or combo of.... 

Centennial Citra Cascade Galaxy Mosaic Enigma

Once the bubbles have abated... for 3 days in some sort of hop-sock or SS hop tube arrangement.

Nice sparkling MZSA  -  Muzzy Special Ale. 

[Pezzza]

20 hours ago, Gully85 said:

Keeping with the above, No cold crashing is not necessary to force carb in kegs. Yes it is helpful to aid in making brighter beer.

That about sums it up I think... Well by keeping it simple anyway. We could get into the entire PSI vs particular temps range to get the correct Co2 Vols etc but meh, you made beer enjoy.

My issue is tracking where I'm getting a metallic or medical flavour into my beer. Haven't noticed it until a 'good friend' (arse) pointed it out. Comes down;

1 water chemistry

2 alluminium kettle

Mmmmm Gully....

Sorry mate am a Stainless-Pyrex person... get testy even using high-temp-Silicon hose.... 

My mum cooked for years for us in Aluminium Pots...

But beer is quite acidic... I would not recommend mashing in an Al kettle... just me.

Can you borrow a mate's SS vessel to give that a go - to rule out the water.

Or do a micro-nano-stove-top brew using a SS pot to be able to compare?

I really believe Al (Al is Periodic Table shorthand for Aluminium) is bad SS is good and especially when it comes to low pH i.e. acid solution....

 

 

[Beerlust]

On 11/17/2019 at 8:53 PM, BlackSands said:

I think when we talk of 'particulates' in the beer we're generally referring to anything other than yeast.  Yeast sediment is usually a given to a greayer or lesser extent and goes without saying.  It's largely hop debris that's most often the source of bothersome particulates. 

Each can be removed. It's simply a case of how far you are willing to go to achieve this. Yeast can be removed via filtering through a pump & a particular filter paper density method.

Remaining hop matter particulate is more easily dealt with. Post boil filter the wort. You can also use natural coagulant finings such as Irish Moss toward the end of the boil to reduce transfer levels. When dry hopping contain them, then remove them. Easy. Hop created "haze" remaining in a beer is less related to any remaining physical matter.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Pezzza]

3 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

Each can be removed. It's simply a case of how far you are willing to go to achieve this. Yeast can be removed via filtering through a pump & a particular filter paper density method.

Remaining hop matter particulate is more easily dealt with. Post boil filter the wort. You can also use natural coagulant finings such as Irish Moss toward the end of the boil to reduce transfer levels. When dry hopping contain them, then remove them. Easy. Hop created "haze" remaining in a beer is another thing less related to any remaining physical matter.

Cheers,

Lusty.

Or Lusty my old friend - try the Lagering Method.... let your bottle rest gently in 2 deg C for at least 2 months upright and then pour off carefully.... pure gold!

Nix particulates.   

Edited November 21, 2019 by Bearded Burbler

[Malter White]

25 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Nice sparkling MZSA  -  Muzzy Special Ale. 

That name has a nice ring to it.

[Beerlust]

3 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Or Lusty my old friend - try the Lagering Method....

All my beers use the lagering method. After a few days cold crashing in the FV, they are transferred straight to a keg & maintained at lowish temps. Lagering happens as a natural process of the way I prepare my beer for drinking. Obviously the longer the beer remains in the keg, the clearer it generally ends up pouring. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Pezzza]

1 minute ago, MUZZY said:

That name has a nice ring to it.

CRANK UP THE fermentables Muz and the taste will have a nice sting to it!

[Gullys Brewing]

21 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Mmmmm Gully....

Sorry mate am a Stainless-Pyrex person... get testy even using high-temp-Silicon hose.... 

My mum cooked for years for us in Aluminium Pots...

But beer is quite acidic... I would not recommend mashing in an Al kettle... just me.

Can you borrow a mate's SS vessel to give that a go - to rule out the water.

Or do a micro-nano-stove-top brew using a SS pot to be able to compare?

I really believe Al (Al is Periodic Table shorthand for Aluminium) is bad SS is good and especially when it comes to low pH i.e. acid solution....

 

 

Cheers BB.

I run a three vessel, the mash tun is a 50lt SS keg, it's only the kettle that is alluminium which only sees the boil.

I do here you and will be doing just that soon, once I rule out other issues. I'm on 2 Step process atm to narrow down the issue, weather infection or water chemisty. Just so I come out of this with some knowledge of what had happened.

Current step, can HLT of any calcium build up and replace off tubing at bottling. From that I should have some comparison to my next brew.

Thank you, Gully

[Pezzza]

7 minutes ago, Gully85 said:

Cheers BB.

I run a three vessel, the mash tun is a 50lt SS keg, it's only the kettle that is alluminium which only sees the boil.

I do here you and will be doing just that soon, once I rule out other issues. I'm on 2 Step process atm to narrow down the issue, weather infection or water chemisty. Just so I come out of this with some knowledge of what had happened.

Current step, can HLT of any calcium build up and replace off tubing at bottling. From that I should have some comparison to my next brew.

Thank you, Gully

Cheers Gully.  And having had Grandies in Adelaide years ago mate the ol' Adelaide water ain't not that spesch either mate hey... but you should be able to narrow it down.

Can't you do more of a single/two vessel approach and scratch out the Al one and see what diff it makes?

I did for my first AG brews only ever have one vessel - and did alright - maybe you can sub out the Al boil kettle - which given elevated temps and acidity probably is the opportunity to introduce aluminum into solution and hence metallic taste...  from a theory perspective.... anyway - see how you go.

'

[Gullys Brewing]

8 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Cheers Gully.  And having had Grandies in Adelaide years ago mate the ol' Adelaide water ain't not that spesch either mate hey... but you should be able to narrow it down.

Can't you do more of a single/two vessel approach and scratch out the Al one and see what diff it makes?

I did for my first AG brews only ever have one vessel - and did alright - maybe you can sub out the Al boil kettle - which given elevated temps and acidity probably is the opportunity to introduce aluminum into solution and hence metallic taste...  from a theory perspective.... anyway - see how you go.

'

Unfortantly due to the design of the 3V system she is a bit landlocked on what each part does. 

The mash tun has a RIMS with a bottom drain to collect all the worty goodness.

This problem is only resent so and has been over several beers. Didn't realise it was there until a mate pointed it out, kinda hate him now cause I can taste it in every beer I have going back 3-4 batches. 

Love a good problem solve and this will make me a better brewer

[Pezzza]

2 minutes ago, Gully85 said:

Love a good problem solve and this will make me a better brewer

For sure Gully - good call mate - good luck with it.  

Recent problem - if it has been recent - what were the changes before the trouble started?    Was there a change?

Maybe the very first easy one variable you can change is if you can change the water and brew the very same brew you did where you can taste the metallic taste clearly in it hey....

At the end of the day - could be just ONE thing or might be a configuration of a FEW things hey - water - Aluminium kettle - brew type.... anyway - mate you will nail it!

And eventually reckon you might be really well pleased your mate pointed it out.... 

Cheers

BB

[Gullys Brewing]

5 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

For sure Gully - good call mate - good luck with it.  

Recent problem - if it has been recent - what were the changes before the trouble started?    Was there a change?

Maybe the very first easy one variable you can change is if you can change the water and brew the very same brew you did where you can taste the metallic taste clearly in it hey....

At the end of the day - could be just ONE thing or might be a configuration of a FEW things hey - water - Aluminium kettle - brew type.... anyway - mate you will nail it!

And eventually reckon you might be really well pleased your mate pointed it out.... 

Cheers

BB

Haha, I am glad he has picked up on it.

Now I'm not 100% sure, but I have started.using Camden tablets. My read up on it and my thoughts was to add it in the HLT. Beer was fine at the start and several beers afterwoulds but I think a build up orf calcium, potassium and chlorine (Not a scientist so no idea if this is a thing) caused the water to elevate in one area prior to even hitting the mash.

Then I thought maybe my cleaning of the wand and tubing hasn't been up to scratch causing the beer to become infected at bottling. 

Have since cleaned the HLT and will replace the tube and wand. That's the first step.

Second I'll get some RO water

then I'll brew in full stainless, all the same recipie to see what happens... I better hope my beer is a good recipie. A session pale, with all late additions of Columbus, Cascade and a touch of Mosaic

[Pezzza]

1 minute ago, Gully85 said:

Haha, I am glad he has picked up on it.

Now I'm not 100% sure, but I have started.using Camden tablets. My read up on it and my thoughts was to add it in the HLT. Beer was fine at the start and several beers afterwoulds but I think a build up orf calcium, potassium and chlorine (Not a scientist so no idea if this is a thing) caused the water to elevate in one area prior to even hitting the mash.

Then I thought maybe my cleaning of the wand and tubing hasn't been up to scratch causing the beer to become infected at bottling. 

Have since cleaned the HLT and will replace the tube and wand. That's the first step.

Second I'll get some RO water

then I'll brew in full stainless, all the same recipie to see what happens... I better hope my beer is a good recipie. A session pale, with all late additions of Columbus, Cascade and a touch of Mosaic

My suspicion cobber is that it will not be your Tube and Wand - or are they Aluminium?  Suspecting plastic - but why not - replace all - cut out all the possible variables.  

I am thinking that wild yeast infection would not throw that taste - but hey - I cannot conclusive advise - and now after brewing experimentation - different yeasts can have a marked effect.

The HLT is SS - again - am thinking it should be ok - but if there is evidence of precipitates of salts in there - white stains - yep - wash them out - and lemon juice or citric acid or vinegar dilute solution might be good to run over it and wash it all out... rinse very well....  mildly acid solution to mobilise any possible metal salt precipitates (salts that drop out of solution = crystalline salt) and followed by comprehensive rinse... 

And yeah - change the water  - Springwater - or RO water - just any lower salt content water - than Adelaide water....  rainwater even... preferably rainwater tanks somewhere nice in the Barossa Valley and not next to the Main North Road ; )

 

And just use your standard brew - make sure you use the same ingredients..... keep that one thing constant - and change the other stuff... and see if the met taste drops off a bit?

 

[Pezzza]

13 minutes ago, Gully85 said:

Second I'll get some RO water

then I'll brew in full stainless, all the same recipie to see what happens... I better hope my beer is a good recipie. A session pale, with all late additions of Columbus, Cascade and a touch of Mosaic

maybe taste the water you will use... and taste that same water as it comes out of each of your three vessels.... what about the tubing in between?   

If you taste the water as it comes through the stages - maybe you can pick it up straightaway?   Easier said than done mate.  Good luck mate good stuff. 

I have had some water issues meself with my rainwater and am using some water from work in my next brew.  I think my rainwater would probably be ok once boiled - but I don't like the recent change with the heat - so am using different water for my next brew....  so there's more of us experimenting mate for the better ; )

[Otto Von Blotto]

Kettle finings don't drop out hop matter, they work on proteins mainly. 

As for the acidity thing, wort is not as acidic as beer. It's usually around 5.2-5.5pH during the mash, boiling reduces it a bit down to around 5-5.1, while beer is usually under 4.5. Metallic flavours are usually a result of too much iron, Never heard of anyone having problems because the pots were aluminium. 

[Pezzza]

9 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Kettle finings don't drop out hop matter, they work on proteins mainly. 

As for the acidity thing, wort is not as acidic as beer. It's usually around 5.2-5.5pH during the mash, boiling reduces it a bit down to around 5-5.1, while beer is usually under 4.5. Metallic flavours are usually a result of too much iron, Never heard of anyone having problems because the pots were aluminium. 

Anything less than pH 7 is classed acidic.  pH of 5.5-5.0 is definitely acidic.   Aluminium is more soluble at lower pHs. 

What does "usually" mean?

 

I have Iron Particulates (rusty pipes) that drop out and also remain in suspension in my work water and there is no metallic taste.

The good ol' boys just realised we have been drinking rusty water for a while as some plonker pinched the filter out of the main filter.  No metallic taste at least in Tea.

Manganese Zinc Copper also possibles.  And taking some severe gut-busting gutbug antibiotics  : )

 

The other possibility @Gully85 is dodgy pipework - hopefully you are not still on lead pipes?

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

I wasn't saying it's not acidic, just that wort isn't as acidic as beer. Usually it's in that range but it can be higher up around 5.8. Having said that they put beer in aluminium cans without any problems so I don't see how making wort in aluminium pots would be an issue either. 

Look up any off flavour thing for beer and you'll usually find excessive iron as one reason for metallic flavours. No doubt there are others as well, copper would be the one more likely to come from equipment.  

[Pezzza]

I don't reckon beer in cans tastes as good as beer from a bottle... and old cans seem to be worse.  And AG beer from a Coopers Glass Bottle and out of a SS Keg is Gold.

But you are right as Coke comes in cans and is pH 2.5 which is more seriously acidic.  Whether the alloy utilised is same in coke tin as in big pot don't know.  Also don't know if oxygen plays part re an Al pot having the Al Oxide on surface that is then brought into solution.  Not too much oxygen in full coke can.

The worst recent metallic taste I had was some 1950s honey that was vintage - yeah - but had been stored originally in those big old what used to be kerosene tins - and then sold in small glass jars as a novelty... that was seriously metallic and feral.

And certainly lead pipes are not a good idea.

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

I reckon they all taste the same if you pour it into a glass first. Drinking straight from the can or bottle doesn't taste as good as the glass anyway but I do find a slight difference between the two. I think the can is a little worse but it's more because the opening doesn't allow the aroma to be smelt. It doesn't work well in bottles either but it's slightly better. 

[Pezzza]

I don't reckon tinnies are as good as bottles straight from vessel or decanted.

But everything tastes good depending upon how thirsty you are