Fail Thread (Mistakes You've Made) 2019

[Beer Baron]

9 hours ago, Beerlust said:

R.I.P. Temp Controller

Wrong diagnosis, it was the freezer!! Aaaaaaaaarrrrggh!!   

I finally got hold of a new temp controller so I hook it up, & the same BS. Gets down to about 7-8°C & won't go any lower.

So trying to save a few bucks because the freezer is still working on some level, I phone a refrigeration mechanic. He asks what the problem is, I give him a detailed account, he gives me the run around stating he needs to come out & have a look at it thus costing me an expensive call-out fee of about $90 just to tell me what the problem is without even doing any work on it. We to & fro a bit until I just say, "OK mate if you have to replace the compressor will that push the cost past the $300 mark?". He says that will take it over the $300 mark. So I said, I'll take some time & think on it. You all might be asking why $300? because I can buy a brand new freezer for $295 atm, & that's what I did today. I went the extra 2yr extended warranty (that I don't normally do) in case it decides to die prematurely. It'll be delivered tomorrow. 

I've still got a finished beer sitting in my brew fridge that's been chilling down now for a week that I could have kegged last Monday if I wished too if not for this head @#$%.

Perfectly working STC-1000 went in the wheelie bin rubbish that was collected last week. 

Say no more.

Lusty.

Some trades are a joke. I’ve been watching some blokes over the street who are only concreting two strips of a very small driveway, just for the car tyres to drive on and they have just finished their third half day there with no a drop of concrete poured yet. 

[Beerlust]

16 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Shame about the temp controller though

The extension cord fittings exiting the box had very early stages of blackening at the entry points, so it was likely on it's way out anyways & potentially a fire risk down the track. It only cost me $20-$30 so not a big loss & the new Keg King one was only $55.00. The damn freezer replacement was a lot more costly though, & is what I'm more peeved about.

9 hours ago, Beer Baron said:

Some trades are a joke. I’ve been watching some blokes over the street who are only concreting two strips of a very small driveway, just for the car tyres to drive on and they have just finished their third half day there with no a drop of concrete poured yet. 

Maybe they are former refrigeration mechanics having their first go at concreting?

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah, I was a bit annoyed about having to replace the kegerator, I do like the new one better but I would have happily kept the old one if it didn't start not chilling properly. I'm not sure what caused it, but it did ice up a lot on the chilling plate if the temp was dropped down to where I normally have it. The new one does a bit, but every now and then I notice that the temp on the display is higher than normal, which could be the auto defrost happening. It goes back to normal shortly after. 

[BlackSands]

11 hours ago, MUZZY said:

I got stitched up in a similar way about 10-15 years ago on a dishwasher. Repair dude comes out and charged a wad to basically do a quote. Actual repair was going to cost another wad and a half. Ever since then instead of getting repairs I've just bought new appliances and extra warranty on the ones that are likely to fail eg. washing machines.
Not a really environmentally friendly way to do things but more cost effective.

Was facing the same issue with our 5 year old washing machine just a few months ago...  $99 call out fee and then $60/hr plus parts.  In the end I pulled the thing apart myself.  Replaced a faulty water inlet valve only to then discover the controller board was also faulty -  almost certainly one caused the other to fail. So, I ordered a new controller and fitted that as well - problem solved, total parts cost around $150.   Admittedly the machine was out of action, with it's bowels hanging out all over the place  for a week while I was waiting for parts delivery but the saving was well worth the inconvenience.

As for fridges/freezers not getting down to temp.  I recommend bypassing the fridge/freezers thermostat if its one of the older electro-mechanical types with oil-filled sensor tube.   My fridge originally settled out at around 6ºC.  After bypassing the thermostat it's now not only capable of chilling to sub-zero but also does it a whole lot faster, 10 - 11 hours to CC a brew down to 0.5ºC.    

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by BlackSands

[Pezzza]

11 hours ago, MUZZY said:

Not a really environmentally friendly way to do things but more cost effective.

Sad but true Muzz.  Am havvvving a fffkkkkkn shittttfight with Chainsaw people... beautiful near new (BUT OLDER) model saw... everything fine and dandy except rubber diaphragm for fuel pump that lubes the chain.... fkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk mmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeee….. oh we stopped making them in 2016.... they were sold out in 2017.… have chased everywhere for them in Aus.  So this tiny missing part basically means "park it up'' .   Am hoping that some festttty old contacts in Deutschland can somehow find one...  if not I guess I'll start a thread here ; )

Brewing and chainsaws seems to me a perfect match!?!  As long as the chronological order mandated is adhered to at all times hey.... Saws down and cooling - Brews up and cruising!

[Pezzza]

11 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

As for fridges/freezers not getting down to temp.  I recommend bypassing the fridge/freezers thermostat if its one of the older electro-mechanical types with oil-filled sensor tube.   My fridge originally settled out at around 6ºC.  After bypassing the thermostat it's now not only capable of chilling to sub-zero but also does it a whole lot faster, 10 - 11 hours to CC a brew down to 0.5ºC.    

Dunno what specific sensor config my brew fridge and brew freezer are... but running them off a temp controller they seem to be doing what they are told to... if anything a bit over enthusiastic.... but am running them for lagering bottled beer and the other with the very first keg at around 2 deg C and they are doing well... and I get to pay the electricity bill.  Guess at least they are in a cooler part of the house which is good.  Not my place otherwise I certainly would be stacking the Northerly facing roof w PVAs.  Would be nice one day to be brewing storing and pouring powered by Solar like you fellas @Ben 10 @Otto Von Blotto.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Ours are on the east and west facing roof, no northern face on this house but it still produces enough to run the whole house for pretty much nothing all day, as well as exporting about 18-20 kWh a day when the sun's out all day, which pretty much pays for the night time usage. They're installing the new meter on Wednesday, so we'll be able to actually get on a solar plan then and start getting money for the exports.

[BlackSands]

14 minutes ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Dunno what specific sensor config my brew fridge and brew freezer are... but running them off a temp controller they seem to be doing what they are told to... if anything a bit over enthusiastic.... 

Yeah, ff they're fairly recent appliances then they may well use electronic controllers or if not then their thermostats are obviously working fine.  Older fridges (and maybe cheaper new models) use thermostats for temp control.   It's these that can become problematic with age such that when they're set to their minimum the fridge or freezer simply fails to reach its lowest temperature.   In this situation, regardless of what temp you set your external controller to (inkbird etc), the fridges faulty thermostat will have already switched the compressor off before it gets anywhere near your set temperature.    The hysteresis on some of those thermostats was also quite wide and because of that alone they could sometimes be in conflict with your controller at CC temperatures. 

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by BlackSands

[Otto Von Blotto]

I guess it depends on the fridge. My 60 odd year old one has no trouble getting down to zero or a bit below, no mods. I suppose they were built to last back then though. 

[BlackSands]

6 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I guess it depends on the fridge. My 60 odd year old one has no trouble getting down to zero or a bit below, no mods. I suppose they were built to last back then though. 

You have said previously that it takes around 24hrs to reach CC temp?   That could be an indication that at close to freezing temps the thermostat is conflicting with your controller and occasionally, because of its hysteresis is switching off the compressor before the actual set temp is reached.   This would slow cooling right down over the last few degrees.  

Edited November 16, 2019 by BlackSands

[Pezzza]

7 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

Yeah, ff they're fairly recent appliances then they may well use electronic controllers or if not then their thermostats are obviously working fine.  Older fridges (and maybe cheaper new models) use thermostats for temp control.   It's these that can become problematic with age such that when they're set to their minimum the fridge or freezer simply fails to reach its lowest temperature.   In this situation, regardless of what temp you set your external controller to (inkbird etc), the fridges faulty thermostat will have already switched the compressor off before it gets anywhere near your set temperature.    The hysteresis on some of those thermostats was also quite wide and because of that alone they could sometimes be in conflict with your controller at CC temperatures. 

 

Yep certainly came across that trouble in the past.  They are not brand new bits of gear...

The Freezer... shitttt… would be 20+ 

The Fridge yeah a baby only 7 but was on spesch when purchased so suspect was already a few years old then 

But fortunately so far so good....   However, I certainly have experienced all the shittttttty things with stuffffed fridge thermostats in the past which his very frustrating.

[Pezzza]

On 9/14/2019 at 8:39 PM, drewbert said:

My fail today was expensive but not terrible in the end. I went out bought new lines and connections. Even parts for a gas line splitter. Got two hand dispensers and all the little bits that go in between. Even a second temp controller so I wasn't stealing from my fv. So I'm home ready to get the version one keezer started. Turns out. The damn floor is indented. So limity floor space. Can JUST fit in a keg and the gas bottle. 

So DB more to the above - I put in the fridge shelf on the bottom shelf - then just a plastic cutting board to spread the weight... and have got everything up off the bottom of the fridge - which has the reduced amount of floor area due to the indent:

[Otto Von Blotto]

21 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

You have said previously that it takes around 24hrs to reach CC temp?   That could be an indication that at close to freezing temps the thermostat is conflicting with your controller and occasionally, because of its hysteresis is switching off the compressor before the actual set temp is reached.   This would slow cooling right down over the last few degrees.  

That's beer temp. It doesn't take it anything like that long for the fridge itself to get down there. Liquid temps always take forever once it gets close to the target. Same thing happens every time and also happened when I stuck a keg of water in the already cold keg fridge.

It's normal for fridge compressors to intermittently switch on and off during the cooling down phase anyway. All the other fridges here have done the same thing when cooling down from room temperature. 

[BlackSands]

20 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

It's normal for fridge compressors to intermittently switch on and off during the cooling down phase anyway.

  Don't think so!   If the compressor is turning of intermittently part way during a cooling cycle, before reaching the set temperature, then that's clearly a fault!

 

[Pezzza]

What's your take on this subject our experienced Gas Fitter @Red devil 44…. 

Should a compressor not turn off in a cooling cycle until it reaches the nominated temperature or ?

My gut feel (this was air-con) was the compressor did have a spell from time to time as if it ran flat out and was overworked to cool things down to the nominated temp it would eventually shitttt itself.

Mmm… that may be an air-con thing and not a fridge thing?

[Otto Von Blotto]

17 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

  Don't think so!   If the compressor is turning of intermittently part way during a cooling cycle, before reaching the set temperature, then that's clearly a fault!

 

Well then every fridge in existence must be faulty because I've never seen or heard of one that just runs the compressor non stop until the temperature drops to the set temperature. They turn on and off so they don't burn out or overheat. 

[Red devil 44]

I agree with Otto on this, compressors dont run flat out, they cycle in & out so they don’t burn out. I’m not a refrigeration mechanic just a mere Fitter but in my experience they cycle in & out.  It is 38 today in my neck of the woods but my Fermenting fridges are steady on 17 & 19 degrees respectively, providing I don’t have the door open for too long salivating over my creations

 

A cold home brew is in order together with a swim, then light the Kamado Joe later for dinner, cheers & good brewing

[BlackSands]

@Otto Von Blotto @Red devil 44 - Nope totally disagree.  To achieve set temperature they will run continuously until set temperature is reached. In hot humid conditions this will be close to 100% of the time. There is a thermal overload device on the compressor itself.   If your compressor is shutting off before it reaches set temperature then the thermostat/electronic controller is at fault OR the thermal overload is tripping on the compressor itself.   

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by BlackSands

[Otto Von Blotto]

Must get some weird fridges in NZ then. 

I just dropped my controller down to zero on the ferment fridge about 40 minutes ago, took the probe off the FV and changed the hysteresis to 2 degrees as per my usual procedure in the warm weather. It's now at 13.5 from about 21/22 degrees. Compressor is currently running but it won't run continuously down to zero. The fridge itself will stay on but the compressor will cycle on and off, exactly like they're supposed to do.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto

[BlackSands]

1 minute ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

. Compressor is currently running but it won't run continuously down to zero. The fridge itself will stay on but the compressor will cycle on and off, exactly like they're supposed to do.

Sorry mate, but the compressor only cycles on and off when it's at set temperature.  If it's not running continuously while cooling down to that set temperature then I maintain there is an issue with the fridge.    Some fridges-freezers have an auto-defrost function which is controlled by a timer.  THAT could possibly account for why you compressor shuts off during cooling

The electrics in a thermostatically controlled fridge are really very simple.  

[Beerlust]

My new freezer arrives shortly, so I'll put this to the test. I admit I am currently of the belief the compressor has a cut-off point to stop it overheating, but while it is nowhere near that potential overheating temperature, maybe BlackSands is correct in this instance if coming down from a high-ish ambient temperature.

Once I hook the freezer up I'll power it directly to the wall socket & have the temp controller just monitor internal temps separately. I'll also take the time to visually watch the freezer work & pay attention to whether it shuts off during the chill down.

Our home fridges generally keep internal temps within a zone so do shut on & off noticeably to us ONCE down in this zone. The same applies to our external temp controlled fridges as we have an inbuilt shut-off mechanism in the controller that automatically shuts power to the fridge or heat generator after a preset amount of time. I've been observing this routine for that long I admit I've forgotten whether left alone, a fridge operating under it's own internal temp controller will continue to chill until it reaches the desired temp zone.

Something else that probably needs to be considered is different makes & models from different times & manufacturers. Certain manufacturers may have set their products up differently.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[BlackSands]

One thing to be mindful off when determining if your fridges compressor is running is a new compressor can often be very quiet.  Also there are two fans,  evaporator fan which usually runs continuously, and the compressor fan itself which comes on at the same time as the compressor.   

[Journeyman]

I'd expect all fridges/freezers to be intermittent on the cooling process. It would lose too much efficiency as the cooling parts get cold otherwise. 

[Malter White]

3 hours ago, Bearded Burbler said:

Sad but true Muzz.  Am havvvving a fffkkkkkn shittttfight with Chainsaw people... beautiful near new (BUT OLDER) model saw... everything fine and dandy except rubber diaphragm for fuel pump that lubes the chain.... fkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk mmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeee….. oh we stopped making them in 2016.... they were sold out in 2017.… have chased everywhere for them in Aus.  So this tiny missing part basically means "park it up'' .   Am hoping that some festttty old contacts in Deutschland can somehow find one...  if not I guess I'll start a thread here ; )

Brewing and chainsaws seems to me a perfect match!?!  As long as the chronological order mandated is adhered to at all times hey.... Saws down and cooling - Brews up and cruising!

A friend of mine ran a business called Statewide Appliance Spares. He could source parts for anything electrical. Surely there'd be a business out there somewhere that'd do the same for mechanical parts.

[Otto Von Blotto]

It's still running at the moment, temperature down to 9.3 since my last post. However, I haven't checked the compressor for a good hour or more so it may have turned off and on again during that time. 

The auto defrost might account for the shut off in the new fridges but it certainly wouldn't exist in the 50s vintage one