BREW DAY!! WATCHA' GOT, EH!? 2019

[Beerlust]

Just on the 5.2 Stabiliser...

There are folks that look at it as an artificial additive for water treatment. It's not. It is a generically accepted mix of the same chemicals those that all grain brew with more experience & brewing prowess add to their water. The difference being with the 5.2 stabiliser is it is a generically accepted blend of those regularly used chemicals to create a water profile suited for mashing grains that will have an impact on the major deficiencies in your water profile. Enzyme activity from base malt grains appears to be improved. I accept it won't create biases for specific types of beer styles that create improved versions with more precise water treatments pre-mash. The general fermentability though appears to be improved across the board in most cases, across most styles of beer when using the product as a pH adjustment. Will it create perfect outcomes for all styles, no.

Take that for what you feel it is worth, & what it can/could do for your brewing.

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

If you're interested in mash pH adjustments it would probably be best to actually measure it first. It may not need adjusting at all. 

I've read too many conflicting reviews of that 5.2 stuff to try it myself. Some say it's great, others say it's shit. It's probably slightly leaned towards the shit reviews or ones that suggest no real benefit. It's easy to adjust the pH with acid anyway since it's usually higher than desired if it is out. Besides, not every beer needs a mash pH of 5.2. 

By the way, it's made up of phosphates. I saw some in craftbrewer this morning and had a read of the label. These are not part of the minerals added to brewing water to create specific water profiles, so that is incorrect to suggest it's made up of the same things as those additions.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Otto Von Blotto

[Beerlust]

11 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

If you're interested in mash pH adjustments it would probably be best to actually measure it first. It may not need adjusting at all. 

I've read too many conflicting reviews of that 5.2 stuff to try it myself. Some say it's great, others say it's shit. It's probably slightly leaned towards the shit reviews or ones that suggest no real benefit. It's easy to adjust the pH with acid anyway since it's usually higher than desired if it is out. Besides, not every beer needs a mash pH of 5.2. 

By the way, it's made up of phosphates. I saw some in craftbrewer this morning and had a read of the label. These are not part of the minerals added to brewing water to create specific water profiles, so that is incorrect to suggest it's made up of the same things as those additions.

Not every water profile requires acid increases. I feel many of the negative reviews of the stabiliser have come from newer brewers moving into the water adjustment area (like myself) that don't fully understand their own water profile enough to know what adjustments are required for what they hope to achieve by adjusting it.

As an intermediate product for those beginning to experiment with water adjustment profiles to suit certain types of beers, I feel it has merit as a valid product to improve aspects of fermentability after using it on the mash water.

Just my 2 cents.

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Most do because of the carbonate content of the water, recipe dependent of course. The only water profiles that don't are those with little in the way of carbonates, some may need an increase in these, again recipe dependent. Carbonates act as a buffer, preventing the pH dropping to an extent; the more carbonate there is the lesser the drop in pH when the grains are added*, hence the acid additions. It should be noted however that it isn't the water being acidified as such, it's the mash. The actual pH of the water has little effect on the pH of the mash, it's the alkalinity (carbonate content) that affects it.

I don't think this product has a lot of merit in those terms because if newbies to this aspect of brewing are having issues, it doesn't teach them how to solve them, but simply to add a bit of this stuff and it's supposedly all good. That doesn't help them understand the varying water profiles and mash pH levels that work best with each style they brew. If the minerals that we use for water profile adjustment are in this product, nobody knows in what amounts, which is pretty useless.

Conversion isn't solely about fermentability, it's about converting all starches. Obviously the resultant sugars are a mixture of fermentable and non fermentable depending on the mash temp and grain bill; the mash pH doesn't affect this but it does have an impact on the conversion itself. In the right range it should ensure full conversion. Will this product fix the problem of it not fully converting? Probably, but again it doesn't really tell a brewer why the mash wasn't converting fully. To me it's better to understand what's actually causing a problem to be able to understand how to fix it rather than applying band-aid solutions. 

Some of the negative reviews I've read have been about it adversely affecting the flavour. 

*This obviously varies with the grain bill. Something like a stout with a lot of roasted grains can handle a higher carbonate content in the water and it works well because the mash pH should be in the high end of the range around 5.5-5.6. 

[Titan]

On 3/22/2019 at 10:22 PM, The Captain!! said:

Good luck on Sunday matey. I’m sure you’ll do a fantastic job. 

Done. No dramas, by the end i was tasting the same beer over and over. On a side note my Engish IPA finished 2nd place, wrapped with the result.

[The Captain!!]

1 hour ago, Titan said:

Done. No dramas, by the end i was tasting the same beer over and over. On a side note my Engish IPA finished 2nd place, wrapped with the result.

That’s great Titan. Good job matey

[Titan]

Red Leprechaun, Irish Red Ale, currently mashing.

Only issue is harraway rolled oats. They dont have aldi organic rolled oats in BS. No idea what the difference will be but hope its marginal.

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

2 hours ago, Titan said:

Red Leprechaun, Irish Red Ale, currently mashing.

Only issue is harraway rolled oats. They dont have aldi organic rolled oats in BS. No idea what the difference will be but hope its marginal.

That looks damn nice Titan!

[joolbag]

2 hours ago, Titan said:

Only issue is harraway rolled oats. They dont have aldi organic rolled oats in BS. No idea what the difference will be but hope its marginal.

Id say no difference at all. Only 340g of it too. I've added Coles and aldi oats to various recipes and all have turned out great. Need to do some more pale ales with juicy oats

[Titan]

Raspberry Sour. Almost at mash out. This will be a kettle sour. 

60 min mash

10 min boil then cool to 40c before adding 5 lacto tablets.

First full sour beer i have attempted.

[joolbag]

6 minutes ago, Titan said:

First full sour beer i have attempted.

Welcome to the fold!  Just before you hold at 40C, what strain of lacto are you using?  If it's the IBS tablets (lacto plantarum) I have read that this strain does not perform well at 40C.  I kept mine at 32C with a heat belt on.

 

Depends on the strain.  I know @headmaster uses a yoghurt strain and that is quite happy at 40C and above.

[Titan]

Yeah its a lbs tablet form. Was going to hold at 36c. Will leave in the grainfather with temperature control on. Will purge with co2 then use my ss brewtech bucket lid to seal the magic in there.

[Titan]

One question. How long do you leave it. Do you base on taste (tartness) or ph reading. Just not sure if my ph meter is very acurate.

[headmaster]

If Lacto Plantarum, like I think the IBS tablets may be? This bacteria will die at 40c. Also I think 36 may be a tad high and optimal may be 30c for these little fellas. 

Depending on pitch rate, you may get to where you should be (low 3's) in anything from 12 hours to several days. 

Going on other experiences I have heard about, someone used 10 IBS capsules and got down to Ph 3.2 in 18 hours at approx 30c. Others have used say 4 and got there in two days. This may be with pre-acidification, whereby lactic acid is added to bring down to 4.6 or just below before the wort is inoculated with the lactobacillus 

[headmaster]

Also, if you have pitched at 40c, the plantarum may actually be dead. If it is not souring at all, then this could be what has happened. 

The pre-acidification for a kettle sour, provides some insurance here, as botulism as well as some other bacteria that can cause some pretty horrible off flavours, cannot live below ph 4.6. 

 

[Titan]

1 hour ago, headmaster said:

Also, if you have pitched at 40c, the plantarum may actually be dead. If it is not souring at all, then this could be what has happened. 

The pre-acidification for a kettle sour, provides some insurance here, as botulism as well as some other bacteria that can cause some pretty horrible off flavours, cannot live below ph 4.6. 

 

Thanks mate. Its done, pitched and held at 36c and they have done the job. My ph meter tells me 1.55, thats why i dont trust it. Taste tells me its done. Now on the way to boil. Should have this in the fv and chugging along tonight. Have a 2l starter ready to pitch.

[joolbag]

Hey @Titan good to heat the lacto plantarum did their job!  36C is on the high side but from what I read they will still sour at that temp.  Ideal is up to 32C and I read some experiments that said they sour quicker at the lower temp.  Go figure, it's unique in the lacto world.

 

The boil smells so strange!  All the best for your first sour mate.

[Titan]

@joolbag what boil time time you reckon? Hearing shorter boil ie 30mins prevents any off flavours.

[Beer Baron]

Brewed my Orange XPA today!! 

I decided it will be an XPA due to the lighter colour. 

Brew day went well except for the ridiculous amount of grain that’s getting into the Grainfather. 

[headmaster]

1 hour ago, Titan said:

. My ph meter tells me 1.55, thats why i dont trust it. Taste tells me its done. 

Your taste buds are probably spot on, but the PH meters can be a tad challenging to make them work properly. 

As I've mentioned before, the golden rules are (in particular for the cheaper PH meters) 

1. calibrate before each use.  That also means if you put it down and want to use it again 10 mins later, best to check the calibration again. 

So you need to buy or make up calibration solution, and have it on hand. More accurate if you do a two step calibration. If you are measuring close to say ph4, finish with the ph4 calibration solution. So run a 6.86ph cal, then run a 4ph cal, then measure immediately. 

2. Store the meter with the sensor in ph4 calibration solution. If it dries out, it may become sluggish or just plain inaccurate. Symptoms of this are a reading that is not stable. 

You can rehydrate the sensor for a few hours in ph4 which may stabilise it. If that does not stabilise the readings, it may be cactus. 

3. If making the calibration solution (buffer solutions) using the sachets of powder, make sure to use distilled or de-mineralised water (RO) and make sure to mix very well so that all of the powder or crystals are dissolved. Make sure to use the right amount of water, usually 250ml for the sachets. Weigh or accurately measure the water. 

Basically the thing is a doorstop unless calibrated properly, every time you use it. 

Edited March 28, 2019 by headmaster

[Titan]

@headmaster wealth of knowlage right there. Thanks mate.

[Mark D Pirate]

Spot on there Headmaster. 

Brewing a new world pils / Kveik today,  all tracking smoothly except got grain crushed to save me setting up my mill since I can't remember which box it's in and it's far too fine so recircing mash is a PITA!!  . 

Gravity and pH are both within a point so happy enough 

New place has no rainwater to brew with so had to spend a whole $6.50 on RO .

[Beerlust]

2 hours ago, Beer Baron said:

Brewed my Orange XPA today!!...

Looks really good mate. I've dabbled with oats & citrus peel so am very interested in the outcome of this beer.

Your hop choices & schedule look really good. It looks a terrific beer on paper if all the elements come together. 

One question though, what is the "Orange Peel Sweet - Primary..." that is partially obscured?

Best of luck with the brew & let us know how it turns out.

Lusty.

[Mark D Pirate]

First runnings looking pretty good , into the boil now after a really,  really slow sparge.... Will chat to them about mill setting 

[Beer Baron]

19 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

Looks really good mate. I've dabbled with oats & citrus peel so am very interested in the outcome of this beer.

Your hop choices & schedule look really good. It looks a terrific beer on paper if all the elements come together. 

One question though, what is the "Orange Peel Sweet - Primary..." that is partially obscured?

Best of luck with the brew & let us know how it turns out.

Lusty.

I’m happy with it ‘on paper’  

The ‘orange peel sweet’ is just orange peel from fresh oranges. The primary part is just like a dry hop. I’ll add that about 4-5 days before kegging. Hopefully it all comes together and is a great tasting beer!!!