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tja1980

Sticking with Mosaic

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Playing with this recipe I knocked up over the Christmas break, its a Mosaic Saison, I thought while drinking me Mosaic Ale which is going down a treat 😄, this could use more spice, and a touch of sweetness.  I've also taken a fancy to Belgium Whites.

The yeast I'm not totally decided on, the BU:GU is almost spot on. 

Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
4.50 kg Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (6.9 EBC) Grain 1 90.0 % 2.93 L
0.50 kg Rye, Flaked (Briess) (9.1 EBC) Grain 2 10.0 % 0.33 L
14.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 19.3 IBUs -
1.06 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 4 - -
15.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 7.5 IBUs -
10.00 g Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 6 - -
10.00 g Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 - -
1.0 pkg Belle Saison (Lallemand/Danstar #-) Yeast 8 - -

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.7 %
Bitterness: 26.8 IBUs
Est Color: 10.7 EBC
Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Calories: 427.1 kcal/l
 
Tristan

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I just find that belle will strip a fair bit of hop flavour, and with the amounts/timings in your recipe, I think will be lost to the yeast and evaporation during the boil. 

Belle also brings a bit of funk that I don’t care for. 

I just used Mangrove Jacks 29 in my most recent Saison and that was delicious. Chewed everything up though and left it bone dry, but still left some hop presence. 

Theres more variety in liquid form but if you  want to go dry then I’d say go for MJ29. But if you like a bit of funk, go for belle. It is a beast

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That is one thing I was dreading loosing what little hop flavor is there, I'll try the MJ29 🙂, may add a dry hop as well, maybe 20g - 30g of Mosaic a few days before fermentation stops.

Tristan

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39 minutes ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

I just find that belle will strip a fair bit of hop flavour, and with the amounts/timings in your recipe, I think will be lost to the yeast and evaporation during the boil. 

Belle also brings a bit of funk that I don’t care for. 

I just used Mangrove Jacks 29 in my most recent Saison and that was delicious. Chewed everything up though and left it bone dry, but still left some hop presence. 

Theres more variety in liquid form but if you  want to go dry then I’d say go for MJ29. But if you like a bit of funk, go for belle. It is a beast

What about a hop back? I did this on my session ale/ipa ag which I'm drinking now 😄 rather than do a dry hop do a hop back?

Tristan

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I hold the temp of the wort at 80 degrees for 15-20 minutes add hops to it, this is not enough temp to release the alpha acids for bittering, but the beta for aroma, so doesn't add to the IBU, I think its the same as whirl pooling, seems to have worked for this little bathwater ale/ipa 😛

Tristan

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That is a whirlpool addition. Fun fact time - a hopback is a device that's put inline between the kettle and a chiller. It allows the wort to come into contact with the hops at whatever your whirlpool temperature is briefly before being quickly cooled rather than staying at those temps for however long your whirlpool lasts for. Used more for aroma than flavour. There was an interesting how to on building one -

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pimp-my-system/build-hopback/

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Sorry I meant hop stand, technically not whirl pooling the wort.

Tristan

Edited by tja1980

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10 hours ago, Wobbly74 said:

That is a whirlpool addition. Fun fact time - a hopback is a device that's put inline between the kettle and a chiller. It allows the wort to come into contact with the hops at whatever your whirlpool temperature is briefly before being quickly cooled rather than staying at those temps for however long your whirlpool lasts for. Used more for aroma than flavour. There was an interesting how to on building one -

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pimp-my-system/build-hopback/

The best versions of this use a system that continuously pumps the wort through the hops, recirculating the wort "back" over & over for a designated period of time, hence the term hop"back".

I've entertained the idea of making one & using it, but feel my hoppy beers are at a good enough level via my current 'pots & pans' processes that it wasn't totally necessary.

Blichmann Engineering have the most popular quality made version of this available. If I ever go full AG I reckon I'll probably buy one of these straight off the bat.

Cheers,

Lusty.

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29 minutes ago, Wobbly74 said:

Fancy. I wonder how these things go at avoiding blockages. 

I would think they have sorted that. Everything I’ve seen of Blichmann has thought about everything, amazing engineers.

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40 minutes ago, Wobbly74 said:

Fancy. I wonder how these things go at avoiding blockages. 

 

9 minutes ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

I would think they have sorted that. Everything I’ve seen of Blichmann has thought about everything, amazing engineers.

Yep they have.

Blichmann Hop Blocker

Well said Capt, they are amazing engineers.

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There are commercial brewers on the scene that are smart enough to NOT try and boil( then chill)  entire volume at once ...just think about the energy required to build 5000 litres at once let alone 100,000  so what you may see in a commercial brew house may not always work on our scale. 

Currently still waiting for mine to be built ( 13 months now)  so I go heavy on WP instead,  chill wort to 70°C while recircing add bulk hops and allow to settle then chill again on way to FV. 

Moral to the story is that what works in commercial brew house won't always work for us 

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9 minutes ago, Mark D Pirate said:

Moral to the story is that what works in commercial brew house won't always work for us 

Absolutely agree with that statement. 

Commercial have an advantage in a lot of points and home brewers have the advantage in other points. 

Thankfully, when I stuff up a brew I’m only throwing away 20 odd litres.

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16 minutes ago, Mark D Pirate said:

There are commercial brewers on the scene that are smart enough to NOT try and boil( then chill)  entire volume at once ...just think about the energy required to build 5000 litres at once let alone 100,000  so what you may see in a commercial brew house may not always work on our scale. 

That's a problem with advanced home brewers (IMHO). They read too much into what commercial brewers do & then attempt to replicate large scale processes in a home brewing environment.

In the case of the Blichmann hop rocket, I can't see why when I'm planning on cooling wort via a wort chiller, I can't also be recirculating it through a hopback device such as this at some point post boil in-between/around this wort cooling process.

There is an adaption kit available for the hop rocket that will allow you to use it as a "Randall" for pushing kegged beer through fresh hops on way to the glass. Win-win.

I could give a FF about what equipment is required to brew 5000 or 100,000 litres of beer effectively. I brew 21-23 litres at a time & only care about how best to process that volume from start to finish, brew to brew.

Cheers,

Lusty.

Edited by Beerlust

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I'll pick up a hop rocket, I can't whirl pool as there is the stick element I put in and the temperature probe gets in the way, after watching the demo it can be used in between the kettle and fermenter transferring by gravity, no need for a pump although that would be ideal as I can recirculate through the pump with the kettle holding temp 😄

Love getting brew shop vouchers 😛 

I'll pick up some MJ tomorrow and kick this brew off, cheers @The Captain1525230099

@Beerlust I just watch Brad Smiths POD casts, mostly on the crapper 😄 I agree Blichmann Engineering make some great stuff, was drooling over the Cornical I could put two of these into my existing fridge 😄 I can't fit two 30 liter fermenters in 😞 not with out upgrading the fridge.

Tristan

Edited by tja1980
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Hi Tristan.

2 hours ago, tja1980 said:

I'll pick up a hop rocket, I can't whirl pool as there is the stick element I put in and the temperature probe gets in the way, after watching the demo it can be used in between the kettle and fermenter transferring by gravity, no need for a pump although that would be ideal as I can recirculate through the pump with the kettle holding temp 😄

You'll get the most benefit from the hop rocket by recirculating the wort through it. If you don't plan to do that & only gravity feed it through the hops a single time you may as well fill a typical kitchen strainer with hops & gravity feed the wort through it as it will achieve the same outcome & not gain the best result from the hops. It is the constant movement of the wort through the hops for a period of time that infuses the flavour & aromatic components into the wort.

If you plan to spend good money on something like the Blichmann Hop Rocket, do yourself a favour & spend a small amount of money on a cheap pump to recirculate the wort through it. You don't need an expensive pump as the flow doesn't need to be overly fast. Something cheap like an aquarium pump would probably be fine for home brew size brews.

Cheers & good brewing,

Lusty.

 

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Good point lusty, adds pump to shopping list. 😄

Tristan

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