Otto Von Blotto Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I know, and that in itself is fine but there's no need to imply that it's a waste of time full stop. Buying a chiller is a waste of money - for me personally, but not for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 In all honesty I actually want to get a chiller, mainly because then I’d have flexibility in the brewing days. Sometimes I’d like to brew on the Monday before I go back to work but can’t at the moment due to not having one. It’s not very often I’d need it though. But I would like to. Some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Well I still reckon no-chill in the kettle is the way to go. If you've got a well-fitting lid (not sealed - imploding kettles get expensive after a few replacements), the infection risk is very small. And you're not risking the bacteria that grow in anaerobic conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I think the millions of cubes (counting fwks) not getting infected or causing botulism are enough assurance not to worry about it. Kettle no chilling (and active chilling) requires a fermenter be free otherwise it can't be done. It wouldn't be practical for me very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Mark D Pirate said: I find partial mash to be a massive waste of time, you're already investing about the same time for an inferior result . No chill is a handy tool, no way I'd be gifting a wort kit made any other way. ( I actually have no problem with kit / extract / PM brews, But since we're laying opinions as if they're facts I thought I'd add a stoooopid one as well) It would be to a guy who has all the physical equipment to Full AG. I don't have that equipment. Pots, pans, & a stovetop here so I do the best I can with what I have. I certainly don't waste time faffing around storing wort after it's made. P.S. Thanks Hairy, & sorry for my "over the top" comment about after you got your Grainfather. It was meant in jest, but in hindsight wasn't worded well & was out of line. I apologise. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Ben 10 said: there is no effort. works for me very well. i can brew two when i have time and then ferment them when i have free fvs. add 40mins to your brew day & you could have them both up & fermenting. 11 hours ago, Ben 10 said: ...grain mills also do not need maintenance. ....yet. Cheers & good brewing mate, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 *facepalms * Lusty.... I'm speechless, it's OK to not have all fancy bling equipment, I made plenty of AG beers on my stove, still make kits with space poor friends ( keep in mind nearly all my gear is second hand) But however I don't rubbish a process or method simply because I don't use it or intend to use it in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said: I think the millions of cubes (counting fwks) not getting infected or causing botulism are enough assurance not to worry about it. Kettle no chilling (and active chilling) requires a fermenter be free otherwise it can't be done. It wouldn't be practical for me very often. I'm sick of FWK causing beer in my area.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, Beerlust said: add 40mins to your brew day & you could have them both up & fermenting. no, read the no chill thread. if i don't have a free fv or a temperature controlled place to ferment how would adding 40 minutes to anything change anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: In terms of time it's not much but what's the point in chilling the wort down if you don't have a fermenter free to receive it? My answer to that is simple. Why schedule a brew day if you don't have a fermenter free?? (insert smack the side of your own head icon!) Break the cycle Kelsey. 9 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: ...Everyone's situation is different and you seem to forget that. I don't actually. What is it that every no-chill brewer does that is so important that they can't spend the extra 20mins (average) after creating the wort via a 4hr+ process to then cool it & fill a fermenter & begin fermenting the beer? I'm sorry, I don't get that. I never have, nor ever will on a practical time based methodology. Home brewers that have brewed for a reasonable amount of time are very well organised people. They can time everything they do within the processes of making beer to whatever time-frames they wish. Yet this area has become an accepted almost celebrated point of "laziness" as far as I am concerned, & for what? 20mins or so. Gimmee a break. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ben 10 said: no, read the no chill thread. if i don't have a free fv or a temperature controlled place to ferment how would adding 40 minutes to anything change anything? I get occasionally due to work commitments or holidays you might wish to store some wort as you can't be there to monitor fermentation etc. but as a mainstay process, err...no. No, I won't be reading anything in the "no chill thread" as there is nothing in there that I will ever have any interest in. 40mins = approx. the time required to cool 2 x brews to yeast pitching temps & pitching the yeast in a fermenter rather than a time-wasting cube. Like I suggested to Kelsey, break the cycle man. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerveja Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I look away for a few seconds and it seems Coopers has an auto divert to AHB RDWHAHB fellas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malter White Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 1:23 PM, Otto Von Blotto said: I agree. I'm sure there's a market of lazy people with too much money on their hands but that doesn't sound like the majority of home brewers to me. Even the lazy ones still buy kits and make 20 odd litres at a time. Hey!! I resemble that remark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Mark D Pirate said: *facepalms * Lusty....But however I don't rubbish a process or method simply because I don't use it or intend to use it in the future I'm not "rubbishing the process because I don't use it or intend to use it". I'm rubbishing it because for the most part, it is a rubbish process for MOST home brewers & their circumstances (IMHO). Pump something up often enough & it becomes popular. Monkey see, monkey do. I approach things in a more practical, time efficient way. No monkey derived processes here at the Beerlust Brewery. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Beerlust said: My answer to that is simple. Why schedule a brew day if you don't have a fermenter free?? (insert smack the side of your own head icon!) Break the cycle Kelsey. Because I can. I can only surmise from your misguided shitposting that you clearly don't understand the process or the reasons behind it at all. It allows me to be constantly fermenting batches, rather than having periods of time where the fermenter sits empty waiting for a batch, which means that the production is actually done quicker in the long run, not slower. You try fitting a 5 or 6 hour brew day into a 12-13 hour work day with a few hours break in the middle. That's my work commitments 5 days a week, hardly f-ing "occasional". Trying to do that would not be enjoyable in the least to me, would likely result in shortcuts leading to an inferior product, and part of the reason I do all grain is because I enjoy it. Im not gonna take that enjoyment out of it just because you think no chilling is a load of shit. My fermenter is hardly ever empty on weekends which is my only chance to brew unless I'm on holidays. It's not about laziness or the little extra time it would take on brew days, it's about convenience. And what's the point in wasting money on equipment that wouldn't even be used 11 out of 12 months of the year? This isn't any different to your stupid b.s. about magnum hops. It's fine not to like something, and/or decide it's not what you would do. Plenty of guys chill their wort. Plenty also don't because it suits them better. I have the fermenter constantly going, usually with just a day in between batches for it to soak, and sometimes I'll get it ready and pitch the next batch on the same day. Not waiting a few days to get the next one going because it was kegged on a Tuesday and I can't brew until the Saturday. That to me is rather inefficient use of time compared to having a previously made batch ready to go straight away. Perhaps since you're so opposed to using wort that was brewed at an earlier date and stored for use later, you should stop using kits and extracts because they're exactly the same thing, just in concentrated syrup form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Beerlust said: I approach things in a more practical, time efficient way. No monkey derived processes here at the Beerlust Brewery. i find that a little disappointing the complete lack of respect you show for others with your fundamentalist type views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogdog Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 My pop gave me some advice once, about baiting the hook and seeing how many fish you catch. It's a metaphor for saying something that you know will get under someone's skin and sure enough they take the bait and lose their shit, while you have a chuckle at their expense. Edit: his point was, never take the bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 That's a fair point but I don't think that was behind the comments. I think he genuinely believes no chilling is a crap process that adds time to the overall brewing process. If you are talking about a single batch on its own, then yes it does add time over using a chiller. However, when the production line is underway, this time is irrelevant because there's usually already a batch fermenting away when another batch is being brewed, so once that fermenting batch is moved on, the next one goes straight in. The "extra time" then becomes a non issue. It's also come in handy for me more recently with moving house. I have no time to do a brew day until probably after Christmas now. But because I have a cube already done beforehand, I've been able to get a yeast starter going which I'm harvesting from today. It will be pitched either tomorrow or Monday, and that batch will get underway, a few days earlier than if I had to wait to brew which I would if I'd used a chiller, as I wouldn't have this batch at all. While it's fermenting and conditioning I can brew another couple of batches and have them both ready to go when this lager is kegged. While it does extend the time taken for a single batch, I find it more time efficient in an overall sense and it suits my situation very well as I'm sure it does a lot of others too. For someone to pretend to know what suits most home brewers and rubbish it as a complete waste of time for them is just ridiculous. We all do what suits us best, to have it shat on by someone with no experience doing it is pretty laughable really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Lynch mob meeting at 6 PM Adelaide time, my place BYO pitchforks , light snacks supplied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grogdog Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said: That's a fair point but I don't think that was behind the comments. I think he genuinely believes no chilling is a crap process that adds time to the overall brewing process. If you are talking about a single batch on its own, then yes it does add time over using a chiller. However, when the production line is underway, this time is irrelevant because there's usually already a batch fermenting away when another batch is being brewed, so once that fermenting batch is moved on, the next one goes straight in. The "extra time" then becomes a non issue. It's also come in handy for me more recently with moving house. I have no time to do a brew day until probably after Christmas now. But because I have a cube already done beforehand, I've been able to get a yeast starter going which I'm harvesting from today. It will be pitched either tomorrow or Monday, and that batch will get underway, a few days earlier than if I had to wait to brew which I would if I'd used a chiller, as I wouldn't have this batch at all. While it's fermenting and conditioning I can brew another couple of batches and have them both ready to go when this lager is kegged. While it does extend the time taken for a single batch, I find it more time efficient in an overall sense and it suits my situation very well as I'm sure it does a lot of others too. For someone to pretend to know what suits most home brewers and rubbish it as a complete waste of time for them is just ridiculous. We all do what suits us best, to have it shat on by someone with no experience doing it is pretty laughable really. I've done no chill once in a cube, that was the only AG batch ive brewed. I dont even know where my cube is anymore. I think in the future if i do all grain i may chill my wort. But id need a pump and ice slurry so it may be a PITA. You know what id like to see, the same batch brewed and chilled the traditional way and the other put in a cube for a fortnight, side by side in a blind tasting. Really if there is no detectable difference then no argument can be made against no chilling. I for one am happy to hear you're getting the second fridge and doubling production, i see you make great beers and styles just not enough of it atm Consider releasing your brews as a FWK, Id love to get your beers over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I have done this experiment many times 2 batches of Smurtos golden ale, one no chilled and other quick chilled . Identical recipe ( no hop timing adjusted) Sadly while fermenting the temp probe fell off the side of the quick chilled batch, ferment temp was therefore slightly warmer with increased esters and that was the only difference. A friend has a triple batch 3V system, I've often pulled a cube right before starting to chill with glycol through my CFC ( 92° to 10° in a single pass) depending on style and recipe there's either massive differences , subtle differences or no difference. Dunkel - no detectable difference DIPA - no chilled was far too bitter, very harsh DSGA - subtle levels of DMS, some chill haze Helles - Corn bomb, I hate DMS ! Stout - no chilled was actually nicer but used different yeast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I think there is a difference between the two mainly with hop forward beers, but adjustments can be made for no chilling to reduce the extra bitterness. I make really nice pale ales with the method that aren't over bittered at all. However, that would be the only negative, Lusty's reasoning against it is just nonsense. I've also never tasted DMS in my beers, particularly lagers where it would probably be more noticeable. I do 90+ minute boils with them, maybe it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I'm very sensitive to it, I find it even in some commercial craft beers . Yet I have other friends who don't seem to detect it at all . If I plan on no chilling a hop forward beer as a FWK I just fiddle the recipe, still prefer to quick chill them though. Single pass through CFC with mains water usually gets me to ~25° and I'm happy to pitch there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I suppose it's like any off flavor or whatever, some people are more sensitive to it than others. I've never noticed diacetyl either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashed Crabs Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 17 hours ago, Beerlust said: It would be to a guy who has all the physical equipment to Full AG. I don't have that equipment. Pots, pans, & a stovetop here so I do the best I can with what I have. I have pots, pans and a stovetop and brew Full AG. Sounds like you have the equipment just don't want to brew AG. Each to there own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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