Bench Capper- Pry-Off & Twist-Off

[spice53]

I have been using the Coopers plastic bottles for my home brew but have been saving my glass beer bottles both pry-off and twist top.

I have purchased a Brigalow Super bench Capper and Multi purpose beer caps suitable for pry-off and twist off and intend to bottle my next brew in the glass bottles.

The bench capper says its suitable for both pry-off and twist but when I try a cap on the twist top bottle (filled with water) it doesn't seal even after twisting once capped.

Am I missing something, the capper is just a single pull down action.

[Otto Von Blotto]

That particular bench capper might not be strong enough to properly seal the crown seals onto twist tops. I've never used one so I don't really know. 

I did have twist tops in my earlier days but the capper I was using was made by my dad, just a little unit that I put in a drill press to cap bottles with. You couldn't even twist them off.

[thebeerpig]

If your capper bell has a thick rubber washer in it, you could try prying it out and see if performs any better without it. I had to do this to my old capper when I first tried capping screw tops with it and found they were only loosely crimped.

I found it did cap them tighter after removing the rubber, but unfortunately my bell had a screw in the top of it that then left dents in the centre of the caps.

Ended up going the same route as Otto's dad and made a bell that fitted my drill press.

[Otto Von Blotto]

How forken good are drill press bottle cappers? The one dad made was housed in timber and spring loaded. It looks to be two pieces; there's a metal pad inside it attached to a spring that presses against the tops of the lids and is pushed up with the spring providing resistance to hold the crown seal in place, while the bell part comes down over the sides to crimp it. Must have had it nearly 20 years now. Currently out of use as I don't own a drill press yet.

[Pickles Jones]

I have a Brigalow bench capper and use their caps, which they say are also suitable for pry or screw off bottles.

I saved up a heap of Coopers Pale Ale screw cap stubbies but there was no way these caps would go on those bottles let alone seal them.

I didn't go any further with the screw caps and use the pry off bottles.

Having said that, lots of people have success with recapping screw cap bottles.

[Chris75]

I use the the coopers stubbies with no problem. I have the super automatica capper.

[Shamus O'Sean]

I have the Brigalow Super bench Capper and have used it on crown seal CUB and Coopers bottles.  Also have used it to cap screw top CUB long necks.  All have sealed fine....in the end.  By that I mean I noticed some of the screw top caps seemed a bit loose initially.  However, given two weeks of conditioning and the bottles had carbonated fine.

The screw top caps do not clamp around the bottle top as much as the crown seals.  At first I was not so sure they had even sealed because of that difference, so just did a couple as a test.  All worked fine.

When capped, the cap and attached bottle sometimes get stuck in the bell.  The crown seals just need a little jiggle to come loose from the bell.  With the screw tops I do a similar jiggle with a slight twist of the bottle in the tightening direction to make sure they do not loosen through this step.

Cheers Shamus

[BlueBru]

You could try different brands of crown seals. Cost would not be too high for small bags. If you have a local home brew shop near you, they probably package them in their own bags. I bought a bag of 1000 from Peter at The Brewers Den when I got started and have never had an issue.

If changing brands doesn't fix your issue, does it look like the bell on your press can be replaced in any way? 

[Otto Von Blotto]

The caps are the same regardless of bottle type, it's the caps that are called crown seals, not the bottles themselves. I doubt changing brands would do much, they're all pretty much the same anyway. I've used a few different ones and no change.

That said, it does require more pressure to crimp crown seals over twist tops than pry offs. I also noticed this supposed loose fitting on the twist tops when I used them. When I asked dad about it he said that the carbonation pressure will actually pull the seal tighter against the bottle top, and sure enough the beer carbonated perfectly well. As long as it's crimped properly it should be fine.

[ekymetal13]

I have no problems with twist off bottles.

Crown seals are better bottles and thicker glass.

I tend to slowly push the capper to align the cap, then a hard finish.

Works for me 

[porschemad911]

19 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I doubt changing brands would do much, they're all pretty much the same anyway. I've used a few different ones and no change.

I have noticed a difference between the Coopers and Brigalow ones. The Coopers ones are slightly more pliable and therefore crimp better with a little less effort. The Brigalow ones work fine, just need more pressure in my experience.

Cheers,

John

[Otto Von Blotto]

Fair enough, I don't know if I used the brigalow ones back in the day or not now. I suppose with using a drill press you don't notice a difference between crown seals because it has a lot of force behind it compared to a bench capper, so they all seem to crimp as easily as each other. Did notice a difference between pry off and twist top bottles though, the latter of course needing more force. 

[MickOC]

A very interesting and FRUSTRATING problem this one. I have had similar problems as to those mentioned above. I would like to add my two bobs worth.

Firstly, there are two types of bottle "tops"

a: Pry off crown

b: Twist Off Crown.

NOTE the major differences between the two profiles. Pry off has a small flat with a large rounded edge. The twist off is largely FLAT topped and Square edged. There are other subtle profile differences but these are the major two.

 

MOST importantly - this leads to the fact that there are TWO DIFFERENT types of crown caps.

a: Pry Top Cap (to suit pry top crown):

 

b: Twist Off Crown Cap:

 

The major technical differences between the two types of caps are the Pry off has what is termed a "double lip" seal. You can see this in the picture. The twist off cap has a "single lip" seal. The reason there is a difference relates back directly to the respective bottle top profiles. The pry top uses a double lip to match the small flat at the top (inner lip) and rounded edge on the side (outer lip). This acts like a "double" seal where most of the sealing is achieved on the "rounded" part of the bottle top.

In contrast, the twist off cap is a SINGLE FLAT washer like liner. This is critically important and directly relates to the shape profile of the bottle top. It is a flat top and square edge that the cap is sealing to. Therefore, it requires a flat single layer. A double lip liner will not form a SINGLE seal around the flat top and sharp edge and therefore will not seal very well (hence an increase in sealing failures).

 

Having said all this - standard pry caps will seal sometimes but require a hell of a lot of pressure/force to get a seal. When you go to twist it off it may need brute strength but it does not mean it has sealed. It probably "bottomed out" on the liner and broke through the liner. When this happens, you sometimes get a bit of rusting.

 

Hope this helps.

 

The next part of this story -  I am now searching ALL suppliers to find a proper single layer liner cap for twist off crowns. I will let you know how I go.

If anyone already has info - please share. A good start is to look at the cap liners you are using and use the above pictures as a reference.

Love to hear from you as I am having trouble with my seals and I love using twist tops.

[Marty_G]

On 12/1/2018 at 8:24 AM, Otto Von Blotto said:

I doubt changing brands would do much, they're all pretty much the same anyway. I've used a few different ones and no change.

Not necessarily correct ... The latest Coopers ones I used did not seal some of my green stubbies properly and ended up with some flat beer as they leaked ... turns out they are a tad smaller in diameter and that affected how they sat on the bottle  ... luckily I bought  500 generic ones from the LHBS which i also used and they were great but when you looked at the tops sealed on the bottles it was obvious that the crimped sides were shorter on the Coopers ... never using them again ... they were new ones that had the coopers logo on them ... duds I tell you ... it appears that some green European lager bottles have a bit thicker glass mouth .... think they were Peroni or maybe Heineken that i got of the son-inlaw not sure as I removed the labelling when soaking them .. 

[MickOC]

Yeah. My point is the screw cap works better and consistently with a single lip liner due to the shape of the rim.

Thanks for the heads up on the new coopers caps. I have not used these. Are they lipped or flat?

Also - what is LHBS?

 

[Marty_G]

LHBS local home brew store/shop     .......   lipped or flat?  not sure what you mean ... they are crimped edges ... also I have had zero success with twist top bottles ... so don't use them ...  not that i tried hard think I did one or 2 bottles ... 

 

[Marty_G]

Sorry I get the flat or lipped .... no idea never look at the seal ... I would guess the smaller coopers ones I spoke about are for Twist tops ... will check one day ... 

[Otto Von Blotto]

I never looked at the inner seals in detail either but I do have about 1500 Baltika crown seals and they have a little arrow on them around the outside edge of the top, suggesting they were intended for twist tops. I used them on numerous Sierra Nevada stubbies which are pry off without any problems. I'm keeping them for whenever I start bottling surplus from kegging again.