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How bad is it to use a Coopers tin that's past BB date?


Silmaril

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A few months back a brewed a partial mash APA based a Coopers can that as I only discovered on brew day was actually 2 years past it's expiry!   ?  Too late to do anything about of course so I proceeded to use it in the brew.  

The beer actually tasted perfectly fine... which I was pleasantly surprised to discover as I really was expecting the worst.   I'd bought into the usual internet gossip and rumour that old expired LME was not at all good!  It was however a very nice tasting APA, just way darker than it would normally otherwise be.  

?

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It's probably both, but I'd expect the yeast would go "bad" quicker than the LME would.

In any event, I've heard both good and bad stories from using kits or extract past its best before date, obviously it's somewhat subjective but it does suggest that results are inconsistent. Freshest is best really.

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To my knowledge, the best before dates on the Coopers kits are 2 years from the manufacturing date. Will it make beer? Yes. Will it be good? Probably not. Remember PB2s beer triangle, Thourough sanitation + Fresh ingredients + Appropriate fermentation temp = Good Beer. Good luck with the brew, i hope it turns out ok

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On 10/30/2018 at 6:20 PM, Rowbrew said:

Thats the only problem with buying kits from Big W. They're not a home brew shop, so they don't tent to care as much

That was my first and only order from them. Realised to my annoyance later that the online shop here is cheaper! 

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I've found with all things in life if you create consistency in your processes, you create more consistent outcomes as a result. If you like to cut corners & take chances then results become very hit & miss. If you are prepared to take those chances in life I say in all good faith, good luck to you, but don't whine when the outcome is a negative one. ?

With beer brewing, I like to KNOW my hard work will result in a good beer, not HOPE it will. And if that means I pay a little more on a regular basis then so be it.

Cheers & good brewing,

Lusty.

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3 minutes ago, Beerlust said:

I've found with all things in life if you create consistency in your processes, you create more consistent outcomes as a result. If you like to cut corners & take chances then results become very hit & miss. If you are prepared to take those chances in life I say in all good faith, good luck to you, but don't whine when the outcome is a negative one. ?

With beer brewing, I like to KNOW my hard work will result in a good beer, not HOPE it will. And if that means I pay a little more on a regular basis then so be it.

Cheers & good brewing,

Lusty.

Totally agree here. 

I know if I’m going to put in 5 plus hours on a brew day, I want it to be good.

ive made some mistakes along the way with recipe selections however they have been educated guesswork. Some of these recipes Lusty has called “interesting”. Each time I’ve expected poor results. And sure enough, poor results. The best thing I’ve got from these mistakes is learning what not to do.

poor quality ingredients equals poor quality results 

 

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5 minutes ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

...Some of these recipes Lusty has called “interesting”. Each time I’ve expected poor results. And sure enough, poor results. The best thing I’ve got from these mistakes is learning what not to do.

poor quality ingredients equals poor quality results

"Interesting" is a word I often use to respectfully advise a brewer that their idea(s) may not turn out as positively as they currently think.

PB2 used to do this occasionally in a respectful way back years ago, but his secret word always seemed a little cryptic to me. ?

The suggestion was always there along with the kindness, but you didn't heed the somewhat cryptic warning, & only realised what was being advised to you after you started drinking the beer & it tasted a little crappy. LOL

I think early on PB2 tagged me as a trouble making guy he was gonna put through a long learning curve! ?

I am thankful for all of it. ?

Cheers,

Lusty.

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1 minute ago, Beerlust said:

"Interesting" is a word I often use to respectfully advise a brewer that their idea(s) may not turn out as positively as they currently think.

PB2 used to do this occasionally in a respectful way back years ago, but his secret word always seemed a little cryptic to me. ?

The suggestion was always there along with the kindness, but you didn't heed the somewhat cryptic warning, & only realised what was being advised to you after you started drinking the beer & it tasted a little crappy. LOL

I think early on PB2 tagged me as a trouble making guy he was gonna put through a long learning curve! ?

I am thankful for all of it. ?

Cheers,

Lusty.

I think your my PB2 ha ha ha

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8 minutes ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

I think your my PB2 ha ha ha

Thanks for the sentiment albeit jokingly you b@$^&!d! ? All that tells me though is Paul needs to be a lot more active here on the forum than he currently is! ?

Are you still brewing Paul?

If you are, I (& I'm sure others) would LOVE to see postings of your brews here on the forum.

Cheers,

Lusty.

 

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3 hours ago, The Captain1525230099 said:

Totally agree here. 

I know if I’m going to put in 5 plus hours on a brew day, I want it to be good.

 

This.

This is why I have adopted what is commonly considered best practice, as best as I can at home, and largely ignored anecdotal crap that not following it makes just as good a beer. It's why I advise others to do the same. Consistently using quality ingredients, using quality recipes and brewing them with quality processes produces consistently great beer. Slack off on any or all of those things and the results will most likely be inconsistent. It might work 70% of the time but that ain't good enough for me to shave 40-50 minutes off a brew day or try to get an extra litre by tipping in a bunch of shit, or whatever else. I'd rather know I'll get great beer than risk getting mediocre beer.

I've made mistakes along the way as well, done things wrong or whatever, most of the time inadvertently, and just about every time the beer has turned out worse than when using those best practices. Not undrinkable worse, but just not as good as it could be. As a result, drinking it isn't as enjoyable as it should be.

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As above I have the same sentiment. Everything I do is through research and understanding my system.

By research I don’t mean as stated above the anecdotal time savers. What I do is based on real research through published books and reputable online references. (I’ve never once visited the brulosophy website for this reason).

Most of my mistakes have been through grain selection and one yeast selection. The yeast selection was 1450 in a pacific ale. Terrible choice, however it made me realise no yeast will do. I never expected the beer to be great but it wasn’t good at all.

Grain selection was not understanding characteristics of roast malts. After the first brew, which was a tipper I understand how roast malts can influence a beer. The other was crystal malts and the influence on sweetness. 

Thirdly was hop flavour wastage. Adjusting flavour and bittering hops and how that works in my system. 

Im not taking away from extract brewers here however understanding the full process has helped my brewing exponentially. I just find it easier to understand and tweak a recipe to my tastes. 

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On 10/30/2018 at 3:53 PM, Otto Von Blotto said:

It's probably both, but I'd expect the yeast would go "bad" quicker than the LME would.

In any event, I've heard both good and bad stories from using kits or extract past its best before date, obviously it's somewhat subjective but it does suggest that results are inconsistent. Freshest is best really.

I've done another brew today using a much fresher Coopers Real Ale can, and used a can of liquid dark malt extract instead of the brew enhancer. 

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On 10/30/2018 at 5:53 PM, Otto Von Blotto said:

Freshest is best really.

I think this is pretty much a universal truth.  However it's reassuring to know that if you are caught out that, unlike the usual expectation:

On 10/30/2018 at 7:58 PM, Rowbrew said:

Will it be good? Probably not. 

... a decent enough tasting beer is in fact a real possibility, and I fully admit that I'm as surprised as anybody by that recent discovery.   Of course the age of the LME may not be so apparent in some styles as others. 

I certainly wouldn't advocate buying expired cans, though if it was just a few months and the can was well discounted I wouldn't necessarily shy away from the idea either.  No every beer I brew has to be a medal contender!   ?

Either way, it's handy to know that if you do, for whatever reason find yourself stuck with an expired kit or can of LME then it may not necessarily be a total disaster!    

 

 

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I suppose that even though it's not definite, the fact that it's more likely to turn out badly is a turn off for using out of date ingredients, when you consider that you're tying up the fermenter for around 2 weeks, then however many bottles or a keg for another 2-3 weeks. 4-5 weeks of waiting is a long time for an uncertain outcome; if you're in my current situation of only having one fermenter going, I mean if it turns out fine then great but if it turns out crap you've just wasted 4-5 weeks that could have been used to make something decent, and your stocks are depleted as well. On the other hand, if you have like 4 or 5 fermenters like some do, then tying up one on a chance brew doesn't really matter much.

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I was in mid-brew when I first noticed the date on the can.  ?   I was pretty bloody annoyed to be fair!    I didn't have much choice at that stage though - 2kg of grain was already mashed, boiled with numerous hops and cooled, ready and waiting for the final addition of the cans contents. There wasn't really any turning back at that stage though I having said that I guess I could have probably stored the fresh wort for a day until I replaced the Coppers tin.  But, I have three fermenters so I took a gamble.  The brew cost me $25 so no big deal.   And let's face it, I learnt something from the experience - one many would have clearly have shied away from!  So, from an informed position based on actual experience of what is probably an extreme example of an expired key ingredient I feel reasonably qualified to offer some level of reassurance to those that find themselves in a similar position.    

But you'll get no argument from me when I say these situations are best avoided in the first place and, at the same time I think it's unnecessarily alarmist to suggest to a brewer that's been caught out this way that their brew is going to taste like shit as a result though.   It might not be a prize winner but I have a hunch most ordinary folks will probably be reasonably content with the result despite any shortcomings and is probably only considered a major issue by what is likely a minority of overly fastidious, and pedantic perfectionists.   ? 

 

Bottom line though (and note to self)... check the expiry dates BEFORE you buy!  ?  

 

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I don't think anyone is saying it'll definitely turn out badly, just that the likelihood of that is higher. Yours likely benefited from the decent portion of fresh wort as well. 

I probably am a perfectionist with my beers although I'm not trying to brew to win competitions or sell it commercially or whatever. I just want to brew the best quality beer I can every time I brew. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, BlackSands said:

So, from an informed position based on actual experience of what is probably an extreme example of an expired key ingredient I feel reasonably qualified to offer some level of reassurance to those that find themselves in a similar position.

Not knowing exactly where you are in NZ, is it possible that the brew can would have been exposed to lower temperatures than what might be experienced in the majority of Aus?

Elevated temps accelerate the aging process.

 

Yep, still brewing - got a Lemon Myrtle Witbier going, due to be kegged tomorrow.

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