Budgery Brew Bird Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Hi guys! Might I say what a great community you have going here! I'm a noob who's diving headlong into the world of home-brewed happiness and would love a couple of suggestions on how I could make my next (*cough* second) brew more interesting and beneficial to my personal beer-velopment. Being as green as a Boags tinny I'm not looking for anything super complex, in fact maybe just a simple addition of another extract or supplementary sugar (honey/golden syrup etc) that from your experience might improve my plan. Using the old classic coopers home brew kit and hoping to make a dark(ish) drop using the following ingredients: - Coopers Dark Ale can - 500g Light DME - 1kg Dextrose Aaaand that's it so far. Straight out of blocks does anyone think this will make a really shitty beer if I just used these on their own (I should state that my expectations are optimistically low)? What would you add to spice it up? Bonus question: can I exclusively use stellarsan to get that OG lager can scuzz off my shiny new brew kit without creating a highschool science experiment in my fermenter? Hop on legends! Cheers, Brew Budgie xo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Hi mate Yeah, the lager is bland, especially if no malt or other things in the mix. New brewer myself, but asked the same question a while back. I think you'll find hops are the answer, if you want to keep it simple. This is where the bitterness, aroma and flavour comes from. You've got some malt there, and that will add some body and flavour too. Adding some boiled cracked grains will also beef up brews, but for me, that's next level and I'm too busy trying the kits and hop combos to bother right now. Experienced brewers can suggest good hops for the dark ale, but your options on what to do with them are wide. Boiling 25g with your malt before tipping in the fermenter will add bitterness and some flavour. Dropping a sanitised bag of hop pellets into your fermenter after a few days will add aroma and flavour. I've done the first option with one batch, and the second option with another. I'll probably do both in the future, as the effect so far are still fairly subtle, but there. I'd clean down the FV before sanitising, which you won't have to do til ready for your next brew. Fermenters always smell a little beery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgery Brew Bird Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, Lab Rat said: I'd clean down the FV before sanitising, which you won't have to do til ready for your next brew. Thanks for the reply mate, just what I was looking for! Re this comment does cleaning down just constitute a good hot wash in detergent before sanitising or a more involved process I am as yet unaware of? Could be a dumb question but I've found a lot of contradictory info floating about on the interwebs re sanitising so just curios what works for you? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I think a no rinse cleaner would be good for this. I did just clean my things down with detergent after and rinsed well. Then sanitised when prepping my next brew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 G'day Budgie, For your next brew, I'd be using at least 1kg of malt instead of dextrose. If you use that much dextrose it'll thin the beer out and could make it a bit cidery. General rule of thumb is to use malt if you want a better full bodied flavour in your beers. Too much dex just thins it out. I'd be using 1kg of malt and if you want to bump up the ABV a bit, then maybe add in say 20pg of dextrose. If you wanted to do a short hop boil, use 500g of malt in the boil, add your hops then strain into your FV. (I generally do this and add another 1kg of malt when mixing it all up). In relation to cleaning your FV, I find that just rinsing thoroughly in hot water and using a clean/new soft cloth or sponge to remove any Krausen works best. I do this as soon as I've finished bottling a batch. I don't use detergent. I let it drip dry and put it away. Then on the next brew day I rinse in hot water first, then rinse it with starsan (no rinse sanitiser) before mixing up a batch. Every few batches its not a bad idea to soak your FV in some sodium percarbonate, then rinse out as above. I've only done this once or twice and haven't had a bad batch yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I'd keep it simple for the first go at it. Generally speaking dark ale isn't a hoppy style despite craft breweries trying to turn everything into a hop bomb these days, so you can skip adding hops if you want a more traditional style. Just reverse the amounts of dry malt and dextrose, or even drop them altogether and pair the kit with a 1.5kg tin of pale extract. This isn't a style you want to be thin bodied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Always good advice from Otto, malt will definitely help, I noticed it with my last 2 brews. I still hopped my English Bitter as well and the result was pretty subtle. I reckon it would definitely be less satisfying without the malt though - these styles of beers are malt based I think, and the extract cans can't do all that on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malter White Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I think the Coopers Dark Ale turns out well when it's just combined with the recommended 1kg Brew Enhancer 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 As far as keeping it simple, muzzy has a good point. BE3 has all the right combos of fermentables for an English style beer. Personally I’d go with full malt but that’s me. Another thing is I wouldn’t use the can yeast. Id go with a English style dry yeast. Only because I think the can yeast chomps through those sugars a bit too much. What ever you decide to do, you’ll make beer. And the more you do it and taste and learn the better your beers will get. welcome to a great hobby Captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgery Brew Bird Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it and you've given me some great ideas. My initial ingredients list came from what was cheap and readily available at my local Woolies/Dan Murphy's, and I wasn't really sure on what effects more or less dextrose/malt would have other than those alluded to by the Kit and Extract Beer Designer spreadsheet by IanH (a fantastic tool that I'm sure many are aware of here) - thanks to you I've got a much better idea of how things might turn out now! I think I'll try and get my hands on some more malt and just reverse the ratios as Otto and Karlos suggested, purely because I don't think I trust myself getting a wort boil entirely correct just yet (a goal for next time I reckon!). I'll update with results if anyone's interested so as to hopefully help out a few more noobs like me! Cheers guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, The Captain1525230099 said: As far as keeping it simple, muzzy has a good point. BE3 has all the right combos of fermentables for an English style beer. Personally I’d go with full malt but that’s me. Another thing is I wouldn’t use the can yeast. Id go with a English style dry yeast. Only because I think the can yeast chomps through those sugars a bit too much. What ever you decide to do, you’ll make beer. And the more you do it and taste and learn the better your beers will get. welcome to a great hobby Captain +1. The ale kit yeast aint that bad a yeast but agree dont think its suited to this style. Id choose one of S04, Mangrove Jack Liberty Bell. They both make a nice beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgery Brew Bird Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Greeny1525229549 said: +1. The ale kit yeast aint that bad a yeast but agree dont think its suited to this style. Id choose one of S04, Mangrove Jack Liberty Bell. They both make a nice beer. Thanks mate, I'll put that on my list of likely changes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Budgie if you wanna learn about doing steeping grains and hop boils, get on YouTube and watch some videos in the fast home brew channel. You'll find that entertaining and get a good grasp on the concept. Plus Ruddy is on here and will help u out if you wanna ask him something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgery Brew Bird Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 24 minutes ago, karlos_1984 said: Budgie if you wanna learn about doing steeping grains and hop boils, get on YouTube and watch some videos in the fast home brew channel. You'll find that entertaining and get a good grasp on the concept. Plus Ruddy is on here and will help u out if you wanna ask him something. Thanks mate, I'll definitely give that channel a look! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab Cat Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Watch out for the thumbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 And the random freezer guests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 On 10/15/2018 at 11:14 PM, Otto Von Blotto said: I'd keep it simple for the first go at it. Generally speaking dark ale isn't a hoppy style despite craft breweries trying to turn everything into a hop bomb these days, so you can skip adding hops if you want a more traditional style. Just reverse the amounts of dry malt and dextrose, or even drop them altogether and pair the kit with a 1.5kg tin of pale extract. This isn't a style you want to be thin bodied. Hey Budgie! Good luck with your brewing - you are already onto a quantum leap forward with the suggested changes above... after ONE BREW?! Outrageous... gold. And a seriously steep improvement curve! Yep this site is amazing and depth of knowledge and experience is vast to say the least. Am with OVB and the devious "Craft Beer Hop Bomb" - so true - made me laugh. Greeny's yeast suggestion is good - definitely.... but if you wanna keep it simple... I reckon just the "beef-up" via malts is the way to go..... ale kit yeast aint such a bad a yeast... the results are pretty good... but going to the tailored yeast solution is the next step up no doubt. Just make sure you have the temp control sorted to get the best out of the yeast. But major improvement opportunity suggested by Karlos and OVB - reverse the DM-Dex amounts - or just go pure malt provide a significant improvement opportunity there. And yep - always wash your Vat out well once done.... always rinse your bottles out (3X hot water) once yer done... hygiene is pretty important. I have NEVER used no-rinse sanitiser and never had any problems but always brewed warm Ale Yeasties... and suspect I may have to consider moving to NRS when I embrace the cold temp lager challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 8:52 AM, Budgery Brew Bird said: Kit and Extract Beer Designer spreadsheet by IanH (a fantastic tool that I'm sure many are aware of here) Sorry to be so 'search-challenged' Budgery but can you please advise where I might find this fantastic Ian H Spready tool to download? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Thanks very much to NewBrews for sending the spready link through... Gold!!! Thanks. And for anyone else who may be 'search-challenged' like me... thanks to NB here is the link for this quite amazing spready: https://aussiehomebrewer.com/attachments/kit-amp-extract-beer-designer-v4-1-xls.59981/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgery Brew Bird Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 It's a great tool ay BB! Sorry for the late reply but glad you got the link in the end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgery Brew Bird Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 Thanks again everyone for the great contributions and a very positive introduction to the community - as an update I chose to go with the consensus and reverse my dex/malt ratios, with some spontaneous inspiration leading me to run with 300g dex and 200g brown sugar alongside the 1kg LDME to see what sort of results I get. I pitched with the kit yeast this time to keep it simple and am looking forward to testing and bottling over the next few days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 BBB I reckon that is a GREAT start - the LDME is good stuff... and not trying to be a Darryl/Debbie-Downer on the situation - but conversing on this site with the brewers... and own experience... think we all will get better product - as we move off dex/sugar to just grain malt products... That is not to put a dark cloud over your great brew coming up - just about opportunities for the future! And as long as you keep an eye on temp control you should be ok... I reckon that temp control is a major trap for beginners... unless you live in Cairns, Weipa or Darwin and are happy to "ale-up" ... Anyway... seems like you are off and racing - good stuff. Look forward to reading about the results in a month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Those places are probably the ones that need temp control the most, fermenting ales too high will likely cause off flavours. They're best at 18-20 but low 20s works as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Without a doubt you are right OVB. You are dead-set right. But if have no temp control gear... no plate warmers and fridges and all the good stuff. A Vat. Bottles. A Coopers Can. Yeast... water... and the temp is warm enough... you brew ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgery Brew Bird Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 Hi again guys, it's been a minute but I'm here to thank you all and update you on what was overall quite a successful second attempt. Fermentation went mostly as expected, but as was previously alluded to by The Captain the kit yeast ate up a bit more of the sugar than I anticipated (FG 1.006 vs 1.010 expected). I left it in the fermenter for 11 days as initially I thought an infection could have been causing the lower FG, but it stayed steady on 1.006 for 4 days and looked, smelled and tasted fine at the end so I was happy to proceed with bottling. For bottling I toyed with the idea of priming with brown sugar to add a little more body and kick given the lower FG, but once I figured out that my kitchen scales weren't accurate to below 5g (another toy for the wishlist) I decided just to go with 1x carb drop per 330ml bottle in the interest of avoiding any unwelcome glass grenades. Two weeks later I tried my first stubby (contents pictured below), and to be honest I am fairly impressed! Alcohol percentage was calculated just above 5% at bottling so it's probably closer to 5.5% now, and the body and flavour aren't too bad at all - the brown sugar adds almost a honey-butterscotch note to it but its not too overpowering either. The single carb drop per bottle gave a nice moderate amount of carbonation, and I would happily do this again given the results. I will say that there is a bit of variability between bottles in terms of the 'sweetness', which I think may have been due to a kind of 'gradient' in the density from top to bottom in the fermenter once the yeast had done its thing - has anyone else experienced this? Overall I'd say I'd definitely brew this one again, but I'd for sure try another yeast to try and get a bit less attenuation (S04 might be a good starting point as suggested by Greeny). For my next brew I'm targeting a pale ale to have a crack at a hop boil/dry hop, and I think if I can incorporate that into my processes as well then this beer would really benefit from the bitterness it could provide to give it some added complexity. Thanks again everyone for your contributions and support - it made this one a lot better than it would have otherwise been and more enjoyable to boot! Cheers, Budgie xoxo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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