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Gelatine finings


King Ruddager
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Just wondering about a few things when it comes to clarifying your beer with gelatine (@Beerlust; you can just move on to the next discussion topic)

So, three questions ...

  1. Is a cold-crash also necessary or will there be a decent effect without that?
  2. Is supermarket gelatine powder (below) suitable, or do you need something specific to brewing?
  3. Will it have any impact on your ability to harvest the yeast?

McKenzies-Gelatine-Powder_400PX-281x400.

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14 minutes ago, King Ruddager said:

Just wondering about a few things when it comes to clarifying your beer with gelatine (@Beerlust; you can just move on to the next discussion topic)

Exonerated from clarity discussions??!! How elitist! ?

I have no problems with those that wish to clarify their beers. Just understand what you are removing from suspension when you do this, particularly with beers that derive the bulk of their flavour from hops &/or yeast.

For the record, lager beers are predominantly about promoting malt flavour so stripping hop & yeast based influences through clarification don't hurt beers like this a whole lot.

Talk clarifying agents with yeast flavoured beers such as wheat beers, or hop forward beers like American pale Ales & IPA's then expect some objections from me if you want the best result. ?

Please carry on.

Lusty.

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I use the Mackenzie’s gelatin from Coles.

Add at around 10degC when starting CC.

( As per, dare I say it  - Brulosophy)

Much Clearer beers, reduces post consumption fart noises and smells, but maintains hop presence in my experience!

Cheers

James

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Half a teaspoon in about 150ml of water at 63degC

I reckon you can see the yeast dropping in the FV within a day.

I have seen the the yeast sticking to the side of the FV drop within a day of adding Gelatin, (also because of CC effects maybe). 

But there’s absolutely no argument against its fart control properties!!

Cheers

James

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Yes it will work but I think there are better products available depending on what you're intending to drop out. Isinglass is effective for yeast, and leaves a very compact sediment. Gelatine tends to leave a jelly like sediment that disturbs easily. Polyclar is my go to for chill haze removal, brilliant stuff and has no noticeable effect on the flavor to my palate. Another option is biofine clear which works on both yeast and chill haze.  All of them drop out into the trub, but cold crashing makes them most effective. 

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Gelatine is my primary fining. I don't use it or any other fining for yeast flavoured beers. Belgians. Saisons. Wheats etc. I use a short cold crash of 3 days or so. For other ales i tend to use just a cold crash of 6 or 7 days. For lagers I fast chill which I think is the key to killing chill haze. Then cold crash and fine with gelatin in the keg. Find that works great for every lager I make bar the Asian lager. For whatever reason it doesn't clear. I think it's the rice component but it's a nut I have to crack.

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  • 1 year later...

Alright, I'm back onto this nonsense again, primarily to make a nice clear marzen for a competition. I don't actually give a stuff about clarity usually.

Also, I'm on a really, REALLY tight timeline.

  1. Cold crash for a couple of days
  2. Gelatine for a couple of days
  3. Bottle, bring it up to 20 and hope for carbonation
  4. Lager as hard as possible for a few days

There's no way I'm going to get all that done in the next five weeks ... but oh well, Wayne Gretzky misses 100% of the beers he doesn't drink.

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9 minutes ago, King Ruddager said:

Alright, I'm back onto this nonsense again, primarily to make a nice clear marzen for a competition. I don't actually give a stuff about clarity usually.

Also, I'm on a really, REALLY tight timeline.

  1. Cold crash for a couple of days
  2. Gelatine for a couple of days
  3. Bottle, bring it up to 20 and hope for carbonation
  4. Lager as hard as possible for a few days

There's no way I'm going to get all that done in the next five weeks ... but oh well, Wayne Gretzky misses 100% of the beers he doesn't drink.

Keep an eye on the temp and gelatine when it gets below 10° and you can cut the CC+finings to around 2 days. Maybe slightly increase the priming amount to ensure decent carbonation if you're concerned? It's not like you're going to sit them on the shelf for weeks or months, right? 

Have you made the brew yet? I find a decent (2L) starter at 25° with sugar (or LDME) and pitch at high Kraussen gets things moving fast.

Another possible - heat the sucker and pitch a Kveik for a 3 or 4 day ferment?

 

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  • 6 months later...
14 minutes ago, King Ruddager said:

Alright, I'm really doing it this time! One question though ...

... why 10°?

I used gelatine as a verb 😄 - because I could 😄 

It was to reduce the time - it takes quite a long time to drop those last few degrees for CC and normally you'd use gelatine after maybe 24 hours at CC temp. I mostly just plucked the 10° out of mid-air to blend in the CC time and the finings time and knock a day or more off the time required for clear beer.

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1 hour ago, King Ruddager said:

Ah, ok, but if I was to cold crash for a week then no big? Just add any time?

Yep. The general advice is to use it after you've been at CC for a day or so. Combine it with a week of CC and you should be able to read a book through that beer. 😄

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Hi everyone, I havn't posted in quite some time, had a few demons to deal with. All good now, while I was absent I threw myself into my kegging project and are now producing some nice beers. This is a Armadillo with gelatine in the cc

cheers

John

IMG_1605.JPG

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3 hours ago, John304 said:

This is a Armadillo with gelatine in the cc

Looks great, John.  I have tried gelatin for the first time in my latest brew.  I am still to open one.  A few weeks away I think.  I hope it looks half as clear as yours.

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Gelatin works fine in kegging and John's photo says it all. I found that it works just as well warm as when chilled . Possibly even better hot as it's an electromagnetic static electricity Klingon thing so the reaction works faster the warmer it is.

When bottling, not so good, as gelatin can get a bottle clear as a bell but you often get "fluffy bottoms" that swirl up on pouring and undo any benefit.

As a kegger I stick to Biofine as even in a keg, movement of the keg when repacking the kegerator etc can still stir up gelatin fluffy bottoms, which you don't get with Biofine that settles firmer.

 

 

Edited by Bribie G
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@Bribie G, I brewed 24L and did 4x740ml and 10x330ml bottles.  The rest I kegged.  It will be interesting to compare.  I only left the gelatin for 2 days.  The top part of the fermenter seemed quite clear.  However the bottom third was still pretty murky.  Maybe should have left it for another day.

I normally use Isinglass after 24 hours CCing and Polyclar after 48 hours.  Then keg at least two days later.  Beers turn out great.

I thought I would try gelatin because it is more natural and a single step.  Time will tell.

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I can't believe so many people are putting all these things in beer to clear it up I knew of gelatin and finnings but all these other options are blowing my mind. Ones for kegs ones for bottles here I am.thinking we made for taste.

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On 2/11/2021 at 11:14 PM, Bribie G said:

I found that it works just as well warm as when chilled . Possibly even better hot as it's an electromagnetic static electricity Klingon thing so the reaction works faster the warmer it is.

Gelatin definitely works much better on beer that is chilled close to zero.  You have to force a chill-haze in order for it to bond to those coagulated particles - and that only happens when it's close to 0ºC -  in fact most articles I've read on the topic actually cite temps below 1.6ºC.   

Quote

When bottling, not so good, as gelatin can get a bottle clear as a bell but you often get "fluffy bottoms" that swirl up on pouring and undo any benefit.

I have noticed this too - but only with heavily hopped beers.   

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On 2/12/2021 at 12:06 AM, jamiek86 said:

I can't believe so many people are putting all these things in beer to clear it up I knew of gelatin and finnings but all these other options are blowing my mind. Ones for kegs ones for bottles here I am.thinking we made for taste.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.  Gelatin is probably the most popular fining option, regardless of whether you bottle or keg, simply because it's both highly effective and very cheap.  As for your comment: "we made for taste",  studies show that many people "taste" with their eyes.  Visuals have a big impact on peoples perception.  I'm definitely one of those people!     However, a great looking beer can still taste like sh*t... but likely less sh*tty than it might have otherwise been perceived to be!  🤪

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@BlackSands each to their own was not trying to say its a bad thing just cant believe so many people on here are doing it even K n K brewers. Might be something ill look into one day but will try and choose the right one. As you or someone else pointed out jelly stuff floating around on bottom is not what i would want in a keg sucked up in first few glasses.

Guess we all different my missus doesn't usually like my brew and drinks vb.  The one she did say was good is an eclipse pale ale and she drank from the first glass that had cloudy hop matter from bottom of keg.  Cleared up a small amount after 2 more glasses poured but still is best pale ale done yet. She reckon when it ages a bit more she will help me drink it. I need to be careful now or will never build up any stock.

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39 minutes ago, jamiek86 said:

 As you or someone else pointed out jelly stuff floating around on bottom is not what i would want in a keg sucked up in first few glasses.

The jelly globules are formed if the water temperature is too high when mixing in the gelatin.  Over heating denatures the gelatin and the result is unappealing clumps of gel floating about which are consequently far less effective!   I've personally never had this problem.   I just 'bloom' the gelatin in cold water initially...   and then later add a bit of warm water to further dissolve.  Very simple and very effective when done with just a little care!  

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