headmaster Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Interestingly, I have had an issue with getting my recently brewed Marzen to clear up. I should have known there would be problems, as my harvested W34/70 in the 750 ml passata jar, remained cloudy over the some 37 days it sat there after harvest which I have never seen before. The beer on top of the yeast that is. Very strange,.. so it seems a less flocculant yeast strain has become dominant. Still tastes great, and just like it should, no sourness or funkiness, but a cloudy marzen is not good.. Oddly the FG was unusually low at 1005 was predicted to be 1011. Have been trying to cold crash it down, fridge set at -1°C and has had it's 2nd dose of half a teaspoon of gelatine. Still not really dropping out. Has been 3 or 4 days at cold crashing temps so far, but was showing no sign of clearing up after 16 days in primary so I expect it could be uncrashable... This yeast has only run for about 4 generations, and was slow to start the generation before this one, like 36 hrs, so made a starter this time to make sure it was viable and ready. The lag of the previous use has probably been the culprit here. Anyone had something like this happen before? Needless to say I will be retiring this yeast after this one. What about filters? I'm guessing I could put through the filter using gravity into bottling bucket? I also guess that would take a long time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Hi Headmaster. Interesting situation you have there. So does the beer taste "yeasty" at all? If not, are you sure it's yeast that is causing the haze? If it is yeast, passing the beer through a suitable micron filter (0.35 or lower) should remove the yeast (or whatever is causing the haze) in the beer. Best of luck sorting it out. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 Thanks Lusty, It does taste slightly yeasty, so it's yeast i'd say not chill haze, (was cloudy when warm as well), and I run glucan and protein rests always now which have banished any chill haze issues. I have heard that when yeast settles out, some of the last yeast cells to settle can have a tendency to flocculate less. Somehow I think I've isolated some of these and they have become dominant. I would say that they are mutants though as that jar of yeast just sat there looking cloudy for weeks at about 2°c, never seen anything like it. Take it from me, if you see this yourself, chuck out that yeast.. I might crank it down to -2 and see what happens. Filter might a bit too much trouble and expense I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Sorry to hear headmaster. Will definitely learn from this and if I have any harvested yeast that goes cloudy, it will go in the bin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Were u hoping to enter this into the nsw state comp? What other beers are you thinking of entering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I've had it happen before with ale yeast but not lager yeast. Usually the first 2-3 generations it doesn't flocculate well, despite claims to the contrary, but after that they drop like a stone every batch. Are you sure it's yeast and not some other type of haze? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 Pretty sure it's yeast, did a bit more reading and apparently not that unusual for this to happen. Must have isolated a less floculant version.. yeah Jools, this was destined for the state comp, but if it doesn't clear up soon, it wont make it as need to bottle condition as well before the cutoff date, the 8th of next month! Also have an APA finishing off in the other fridge, modified Jamil classic recipe with some Centennial and cascade with nelson and motueka dry. Also have a Czech premium pils that has been lagering for some time to enter, and a 18 month old Avery Maharajah clone which I will enter as an American Strong Ale. How about you? I am flat out reading the style guidelines, have the judging exam on sunday!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Hey headmaster, looks like we have done well at derailing this thread! This is what I am considering entering: American Session Wheat Ale, Simcoe & Amarillo. This is the beer that came 3rd in the ESBrewing comp, Group C Robust Porter - entering as American Porter Brewdog Dead Pony Club Session IPA - might enter this as an Amber Ale because it is more to that style than APA. Got marked down in the ESBrewing comp because it has too much caramel flavour and not enough hop kick. Very different malt bill and hop schedule that I would use in an APA K-97 Kölsch - this is a classic version of the style, mostly pilsner and a touch of Vienna malt, noble bittering hop charge at 60min. The K-97 yeast is a bit too fruity (esters) though Ben10s - Enigma Galaxy Kölsch - Not sure if I should enter this, and if I do, which style? It will not score well in Kölsch category because of the late and dry hops. WLP029 yeast though. Smog Rocket Smoked Porter - entering under Classic Style Smoked Beer Union Jack West Coast IPA - IPA of course 7 entries seems a bit excessive, so may cut out the Brewdog clone and the Ben10 hoppy Kölsch. Unless there is a good suggestion for style? Good luck in the BJCP exam mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, joolbag said: Ben10s - Enigma Galaxy Kölsch - Not sure if I should enter this, and if I do, which style? It will not score well in Kölsch category because of the late and dry hops. WLP029 yeast though. Blonde Ale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Jools, Yes I'd say you are on the money with the Blonde Ale cat 18A, if it's not too bitter, go for it!. Looks like the range is IBU's 15-28 and ABV 3.8-5.5 %. That's an impressive lineup you have, you have been very busy brewing by the look of this! Good idea to move the Dead pony to the Amber. I'd just go ahead and put that one in too. I'll expect to see your name in the winners circles! Make sure to have some left carefully stored for the national comp, or be able to brew again quickly, because if you place in this comp you can enter the nationals. And back on the rails, the damn marzen is still not dropping clear, have it at a genuine -1.5°C since last night. Will give it a few more days I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gullys Brewing Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 This is a Kolcsh I have made. Let's derail the thread further. Is a Kolcsh ment to be clearer then this? it delish but unknown how it is ment to present itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 The examples of kolsch that I have had are much clearer. Style guide should be almost crystal clear. Long lagering required because the Kölsch yeast are slow flocculators. What yeast did u use and is this all grain? Could it be chill haze? My kolsch fermented with K-97 is 3 weeks in the bottle. Clearer than this, but not crystal (yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gullys Brewing Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 yeah 2nd gen liquid yeast. think it was 2565? All grain, no wirlock, cold crashed for 7 days. Tbh my first was alot more clouded and alot more delish then this second batch which is clearer. Will keep experimenting but this is a very simple AG recipe to test out technique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Any time I've forgotten to add whirlfloc or the like the beer has turned out hazy and never really cleared up. Even if the yeast drops out they're still hazy. One batch of pilsner, additions of isinglass and polyclar didn't even do any good. Worth adding kettle finings for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Don't worry too much about whether it's cloudy or not unless you wish to have it judged in a competition... ...just worry about how it tastes. Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gullys Brewing Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Correct Lusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 It is supposed to be clear according to style guide, as it is usually lagered. But appearance is only three points out of 50, loosely one for clarity, one for colour and one for head characteristics. so that level of cloudyness may only reduce your score by 2% or 1 point, unless its yeast in suspension which may mess with the flavour/mouthfeel. Alos likely to be marked down a bit more overall if really not so clear, but lots of bottle conditioned beers get stirred up during particularly the 2nd pour in a comp so I would not let this put you off submitting it Gully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 also my Marzen is finally dropping clear after quite a few days at -1.5c. may make it into the state comp after all. BJCP exam was ok, pretty full on, running out of time for each one even though we had 15 mins per beer! Glad I did this though. will not take a couple of months to see how I went as needs to be evaluated by some national level judges in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Hey mate, was just about to ask how you fared! I went to the IWHBC night on Friday and tried some really, really good beers. Had a good chat to Conan who was also doing the exam with you. Beer nuts really love their sours and wild ales. I think half of the beers shared on the night were sours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 I must be a minority beer but, never been a fan of sours or wild ales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gullys Brewing Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Have you named this strain of yeast yet? If not I highly recommend 'the dory W34/70' just keep swimming, just keep swimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Hehe, that would be purfect Gully85, It may well be useful for someone who wanted to use a lager yeast to make cloudy NEIPA's But I will be chucking it after this batch, unless someone wants me to keep it Jools, yeah it was pretty full on, we had mainly homebrewed examples of a German Pils, English Best Bitter, Belgian Pale, American Pale, English Porter and English Barleywine. Conan is certainly quite a long way into making beer on the more exotic end of the spectrum, and he is also a BJCP mead judge, one of only a few in the country. Regarding those sour beers Kelsey, I thought the first time I tasted one, this is not for me, why would anyone want to drink this, which I think is a common thought when anyone tastes their first beer, (although that may have been down to the first beer we tasted being megaswill rubbish..) But in any case, after trying a few, and particularly some good stuff, I am now asking, how the hell do i make this. Some that have just been kettle soured or soured with added lactic can be bit one dimensional, but I tasted one that had been brewed over a couple of months with some of the Wildflower house yeast and it was incredible. After one sip I was thinking exactly that, how do I make this stuff. The yeast esters were like nothing I've ever tasted, incredible complexity, that went so well with the low to almost no bitterness and the light grist. It does take a long time to make a good one like this however, hence the high price tag on some of this stuff, selling for north of $20 per 330ml and way more in the high end restaurants if you are looking for the Wildflower stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Yeah I didn't quite think why the hell would anyone drink it haha, the couple I tasted weren't bad or anything just not something I'd go out of my way for. If someone offered me a glass I'd drink it, which is more than I can say for the majority of wheat beers I've tasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I remember Chad (CanadianEh_L!) cultivating up a wild strain of yeast at his brewery once. It got into everything & ruined a swag of other brews he did afterwards. He ending up having to bleach bomb his entire brewery to get rid of it! Not for this little black duck. Just my 2 cents, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Sour beers made in the traditional way take too long for me to make at home. And the kettle sours I've tasted are too simplistic. But as for wild fermentations ... having drunk my way through 10 bottles of 5 year old Orval that I chanced across and marvelling at the brett character I am seriously tempted to experiment. I think Wyeast had a mixed British IPA culture available at some point last year ... if I can find it again I will get some and try it out and then bleach-bomb all my equipment. I'm also tempted to make a wort and throw a bunch of fruit in from my backyard and see what happens ... Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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