Pitching yeast

[Efilnikufesin]

I’ve done a bit of reading on this and found it can be quite a contentious subject , not to mention quite complex for a beginner like myself . Any way here goes . Following the instructions in my kit and using the yeast that came with the extract 7g I think . I sprinkled it dry onto the wort and left it go . I found the fermentation result rather under whelming . The first brew , coopers lager, barely bubbled at all , but it did cloud up so I assumed it was working . The hydrometer readings weren’t real flash though . Initial was 1035 and finished was 1015 . Fermentable was a kilo of that ‘brew enhancer 1’ that came with the kit . I guess my question is - would I see a better result using more dry yeast ? Say 2x 11 g packs per brew ? Or should I hydrate it prior for a better reaction ? I did some reading about yeast starters but I believe they are beyond me and probably not necessary at this stage . Cheers  

[Hairy]

I wouldn’t judge the effectiveness of fermentation based on the bubbles produced. The gravity readings you obtained were a function of the fermentables used, in this case BE1.

BE1 contains a fair amount of maltodextrin which doesn’t ferment out and results in a higher FG.

But it is still important to pitch sufficient healthy yeast.

[Otto Von Blotto]

1.015 is in the expected range for using the be1, so it has done the job. The amount of yeast needed depends on the batch size and OG. You may get a better result from rehydrating the kit yeast before pitching it without having to add more, depending on the OG. I wouldn't worry about making yeast starters yet, or with dry yeast anyway*. One option is to use two kit yeasts in one batch then take about a third of the yeast cake in the bottom of the fermenter after you bottle it and pitch that into the next batch.

* I used to make starters with dry yeast because I'd harvest some.from the starters and reuse it. Still doing that but mainly use liquid yeasts these days.

[Efilnikufesin]

I did notice that with my second brew , an amber ale with light dry malt as the fermentable the FG was much better at 1005 and the all round reaction appeared a lot better than with the lager . Cheers . 

[Efilnikufesin]

4 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

1.015 is in the expected range for using the be1, so it has done the job. The amount of yeast needed depends on the batch size and OG. You may get a better result from rehydrating the kit yeast before pitching it without having to add more, depending on the OG. I wouldn't worry about making yeast starters yet, or with dry yeast anyway*. One option is to use two kit yeasts in one batch then take about a third of the yeast cake in the bottom of the fermenter after you bottle it and pitch that into the next batch.

* I used to make starters with dry yeast because I'd harvest some.from the starters and reuse it. Still doing that but mainly use liquid yeasts these days.

So..... with a OG of 1035 odd and a 23 litre brew , a 7-11 g dry should do the trick . As I am experimenting with a different beer every batch would it be wise to transfer yeast from previous batch to a different brew , I would be inclined to just use a fresh ingredient. ! 

Cheers . 

[Scottie]

Hey Efilnikufesin

In 1256 brews i have only pitched two packets of yeast (Coopers Kit) once, 14g into 1.067 Specific Gravity. Since then my average OG has been 1.042 and my maximum OG has been 1.057, unlike other brewers here I always pitch from the 11 gram packet (mostly Lallemand) when using dry yeast. Now I always re-hydrate before pitching.  

Cheers & Beers

Scottie

Valley Brew

[Beerlust]

35 minutes ago, Efilnikufesin said:

So..... with a OG of 1035 odd and a 23 litre brew , a 7-11 g dry should do the trick .

Yes.

36 minutes ago, Efilnikufesin said:

As I am experimenting with a different beer every batch would it be wise to transfer yeast from previous batch to a different brew , I would be inclined to just use a fresh ingredient. ! 

Given you're just starting out, I would stick to using a new packet of yeast on each brew. There are a number of things that can go wrong when using yeast from previous ferments, so early on it's better to just stick with methods that have a higher success rate rather than adding in anomalies that can potentially create unwanted problems at this point.

Enjoy making nice home-brewed beer to begin with by following consistent processes & as your knowledge & confidence grows then maybe look to add-in more advanced processes.

Cheers & good brewing,

Lusty.

[Efilnikufesin]

Thanks Gents !

[Otto Von Blotto]

1.005 sounds like a low FG for an all malt brew. Then again, 1.035 is a low OG for a kit and kilo in 23 litres, it will actually be around 1.038. The kit yeast by itself is enough for this OG and batch size though. Check your hydrometer in 20C water, it should read 1.000.

Either way, there's no "best" FG to reach. The lower the FG is, the more thin and watery the beer is so it's not always desirable to get the lowest FG possible. It simply doesn't work in all styles to have FG around 1.005 give or take, some beers are a lot nicer with the FG above 1.010, up to 1.015 or even higher.

As for fresh yeast, I can see where Lusty is coming from regarding adding extra steps etc., but you're not gonna get yeast any fresher than what you've just grown in a fermentation

[Efilnikufesin]

5 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

1.005 sounds like a low FG for an all malt brew. Then again, 1.035 is a low OG for a kit and kilo in 23 litres, it will actually be around 1.038. The kit yeast by itself is enough for this OG and batch size though. Check your hydrometer in 20C water, it should read 1.000.

Either way, there's no "best" FG to reach. The lower the FG is, the more thin and watery the beer is so it's not always desirable to get the lowest FG possible. It simply doesn't work in all styles to have FG around 1.005 give or take, some beers are a lot nicer with the FG above 1.010, up to 1.015 or even higher.

As for fresh yeast, I can see where Lusty is coming from regarding adding extra steps etc., but you're not gonna get yeast any fresher than what you've just grown in a fermentation

I will admit to having a bit of trouble reading the hydrometer and am still getting accustomed to it . The OG reading had a bit of foam on the top and I couldn’t see the exact notch but estimated to be around 1035-37 then I did it again on the final two readings too wit I again guessed either 1010 or 1005 . Yep dodgy I know . Plus their might have been maybe an extra 1/2 litre of water than their should of been . 

[Hairy]

1 hour ago, Scottie said:

In 1256 brews ......

Did you start brewing in 1256?

[Otto Von Blotto]

1256 brews? I don't even think I'm at 100 yet

45 minutes ago, Efilnikufesin said:

I will admit to having a bit of trouble reading the hydrometer and am still getting accustomed to it . The OG reading had a bit of foam on the top and I couldn’t see the exact notch but estimated to be around 1035-37 then I did it again on the final two readings too wit I again guessed either 1010 or 1005 . Yep dodgy I know . Plus their might have been maybe an extra 1/2 litre of water than their should of been . 

You can let it sit and wait for the foam to subside, it doesn't have to be read as soon as you take the sample. Half a litre probably won't make a heap of difference to the readings, certainly not 5 points.

[Beerlust]

1 hour ago, Hairy said:

Did you start brewing in 1256?

No silly! He's just brewed a beer every week for the last 24 years! 

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Scottie]

6 hours ago, Scottie said:

Hey Efilnikufesin

In 126 brews i have only pitched two packets of yeast (Coopers Kit) once, 14g into 1.067 Specific Gravity. Since then my average OG has been 1.042 and my maximum OG has been 1.057, unlike other brewers here I always pitch from the 11 gram packet (mostly Lallemand) when using dry yeast. Now I always re-hydrate before pitching.  

Cheers & Beers

Scottie

Valley Brew

Did you know that you can't edit posts ?

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

You can edit posts but the time window is very short, only a few minutes. I spent time writing an edit on a post recently and by the time I was ready to post it the damn time was up.

[bennysbrew]

On 7/16/2018 at 11:51 AM, Otto Von Blotto said:

1.015 is in the expected range for using the be1, so it has done the job. The amount of yeast needed depends on the batch size and OG. You may get a better result from rehydrating the kit yeast before pitching it without having to add more, depending on the OG. I wouldn't worry about making yeast starters yet, or with dry yeast anyway*. One option is to use two kit yeasts in one batch then take about a third of the yeast cake in the bottom of the fermenter after you bottle it and pitch that into the next batch.

* I used to make starters with dry yeast because I'd harvest some.from the starters and reuse it. Still doing that but mainly use liquid yeasts these days.

Got a bit of an amateur hour question regarding using what's left at the bottom after bottling . I've always just used a new packet, but would like to start recycling for at least an extra batch.

So the yeast cake, can I just put the new brew straight on top of the entire yeast cake, or do I need to reduce the amount, or makes no difference? 

Alternatively, if I was to seperate it into thirds for a later date, it just goes into a sanitised jar into the fridge for a month or two? Does it need some liquid in with it, or all good?

Thanks

[Otto Von Blotto]

I would not pitch onto an entire yeast cake* because it would be a massive overpitch, and will probably cause the beer to be blander than pitching at or around the proper rate. Yeast reproduction adds flavors to the beer, if it doesn't really have to reproduce, such as using a whole yeast cake in a new batch, then you won't get those flavors. Conversely with underpitching it reproduces too many times and can result in off flavors. The recommended rates give the right flavor profile as well as ensure that the yeast dominates over any other bugs that may be present.

You can simply scoop out about a third of the cake and put it in a sanitised jar in the fridge, or you can add a little (say 500-1000mL) boiled and cooled water to the fermenter after bottling, swirl it all up and fill a jar with the mixture. I'd probably use it within two weeks but it can be stored longer. 

*Exceptions to this would be if the new batch is twice the size of the old batch, and/or is of a considerably higher OG e.g.the first batch was 1.040 and the new one 1.080 or something. If the two batches are similar then it's way too much yeast.