Galaxy based APA

[Mikes15]

Found (!) 70g of galaxy in the freezer also got a pack of S-04 been in the fridge for a while so thinking of throwing a beer together with no real Idea of what it will be,,, thought an APA.

300g Medium Crystal steeped in 2Ltrs over night,

bring to the boil to make a hop tea of

30g Galaxy, 30g Citra 7min boil.

3kg Black rock ultra light malt.

500g DEX.

21ltr wort.

S-04, started at 18'C, finished at 20'C

Dry hop of

40g Galaxy, 40g Amarillo, 20g Citra.

Cold crashed.

Hoping to get a lighter colour beer with strong hop finish but also good bitterness, alike the modern style APA's.

According to the Brewers Friend recipe builder I get;

OG = 1.053
FG=1.011

ABV= 5.54%

IBU's= 0.43
SRM(?)= 7.14

On target for APA Style.

How does it sound? - when I put to in without the Dex IBU's where 0.60 but ABV was 4.3% so a bit light.

 

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

0.43? That doesn't sound right even from a tiny and short boil like that. Do you mean 43? I struggle to see how boiling 60g of hops in 2L for 7 minutes would get 43 either. Pale ales should be up around 30-40 depending on the beer. I usually make mine to about 33-35. I think your recipe as it stands will turn out too sweet and you won't get that bitterness you're chasing. A longer boiled addition would achieve that, perhaps take some of the Citra for it as Galaxy isn't ideal for long boils.

In any case, I'd be increasing that boil size if you have a larger pot. Use the wort from the grain steep then add more water, say about 4-5 litres, and a few hundred grams of the extract, and do your hop boil in that. You'll get better utilisation from the hops.

[Mikes15]

My pot can hold 10L so no drama to do a bigger boil with 4-500g of ULME, would you increase the steep volume or just 2L & sparge up to 5L?

Not sure what went wrong there,,,, Ran it again with a 5L boil same hop boil but also added 30g boil & 20g DH of Moutere;

Characteristics:A high alpha hop with distinctive tropical, grapefruit and passion fruit characters.
Alpha Acid Range: 17.0-19.5%
Beta Acid Range: 8.0 - 10.0%

Hop schedule=

5l of sparged steep,
30min 50g Citra
20min 50g Moutere
7min 50g Galaxy

DH
20g each, Citra, Moutere, Galaxy.

IBU= 32.28

Dropped the Dex as this this the ABV was to high, now 5.03%

Sounds a bit better!

Thoughts?

 

[Mikes15]

PS the brewer friend has 2 settings for IBU, Tinseth or Rager,

Rager says 32.28, Tinseth says 61.15?

[Otto Von Blotto]

I'd leave the steep volume at 2L and just 'sparge' the grains over the bigger pot, 5L, 7L whatever doesn't cause a boilover

I used to use the Tinseth IBU thingy when doing extract boils but the software I used had a function that took the boil size into account when calculating it which I think was more based off Garetz. The reality is that your IBU is probably gonna be somewhere in the middle, 32 sounds like not enough, I'd think 50g of Citra boiled for half an hour would just about give you 30IBUs by itself, but 61 sounds a bit high. Maybe drop the first two boil additions down to 20g each, and throw the other 30g of them in at flameout for a short steep.

[Mikes15]

Im being such a duche on this,,, Tinseth is giving 32.28 not Rager,

This also uses boil size, changing it makes a huge diff on the IBU, 6L is giving 44.53 vs. 32.28 with 5L

Changing the 1st 2 hop additions down to 20g take the IBUs down to just 16.07(tinseth)!

This calc says 50g Citra boiled for 30 gives only 11.62 Tinseth (24.6 Rager).

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/672870/my-1st-apa

Hops

Amount	Variety	Type	AA	Use	Time	IBU
50 g	Galaxy	Pellet	14.25	Boil	7 min	5.26
50 g	Citra	Pellet	11	Boil	30 min	11.62
50 g	Moutere	Pellet	18.5	Boil	20 min	15.4

[Mikes15]

excuse my ignorance but if increasing the boiler size from 5L to 6L increases the IBU's by over 12 does this mean you can use the 6L boil & reduce the hop volumes to get the same IBU's aka same result at a lower hop cost?

[Otto Von Blotto]

Essentially yes. There's debate over whether the boil size makes any difference once you get up to 5litres or more. I honestly don't know, when I did extract brewing I used to account for the boil size and the beers turned out as expected. I punched one into a full volume AG recipe once and the IBUs were about 20 higher than when I brewed it with extract and a small boil. The beer definitely didn't taste that bitter though.

[Norris!]

Mikes15 man I have to say that I think 50g of citra is going to be way higher than 11.62 with a 30min boil. From the ingredient it looks like it is going to be extremely bitter, even with a 5 liter boil. Also 5l with 150g of hops is going to eat up a lot of wort and lose efficiency. The hops you have are all high AA, which means a little goes a long way. You are also using very flavoursome hops with 30min and 20min boils, which will reduce the aroma but should add some to the flavour.

My suggestion is to go late with the additions by steeping them. If you want the full effectiveness of these hops I would not do any boils longer than  10 min and that would be with Moutere, which I think also goes by Brooklyn, and steep with the galaxy and citra and even the Moutere and then dry hop it. I have found that you can get enough bitterness just from steeps and NO boils, and the aromas and flavors are better than most craft beers I have bought...little bling is one that still blows me away.

Norris

[Otto Von Blotto]

There's a difference between the bitterness you get from late and flameout steeped additions compared to long boiled hops. If you want a solid bitterness behind it you need some long boiled hops.

I brewed an IPA a few years ago that turned out too sweet because too much of the bitterness came from late hops. It would have been a lot nicer if it had more longer boiled hops in it. It was also cloudy as hell and brewed in water that contained more chloride than sulphate. Pretty much a NEIPA before they were cool

[Norris!]

I see your point about the solid bitterness, but for my tastes I love the bitterness I get from flameout additions. As for Mikes recipe, the 100 g of citra and galaxy at 30min and down would be crazy bitterness like at least over 80ibus if not 100+, my Beersmith is set for 10l boil and it is over 100ibu.

If he wants the solid bitterness from early hop additions, 10g at 60 min gives me 22ibu so for a 6l boil maybe 18ish? Either way Mike needs to adjust the additions. Maybe a regular schedule of 60 30 15 5 minutes, but 30min and 20min 50g additions with citra and galaxy will lead to a tipper, unless he ups the malt to compensate i.e. feral Worthog.

Cheers,

Norris

[Norris!]

On a side note, hope this isn't hijacking, my latest batch is a little NEIPA, it will be like 4% alcohol, I actually used a 60 min addition of warrior, partly because those hops have been sitting for 6+months and like you noted, I wanted to ensure a solid bitterness backbone so that it wasn't just hop juice..."It tastes like carbonated purple!" hahha and a good malt backbone to help balance it out, some. The NEIPA style, I feel, is meant to be off balance but with the malt complimenting the beer but being overshadowed by hoppiness.

Norris

[Norris!]

I just looked at the link Mikes provided, brewersfriend, it shows the boil gravity as 1.2something, which is crazy high, so that is why the low IBUS from the recipe software.  Fix the boil gravity and it will tell you the proper IBUS. I hope that helps

 

Norris

 

[Mikes15]

6 hours ago, Norris! said:

boil gravity

Norris

Keh???

1st time Ive tried using this or any calculator so really apriciate you guys helping & looking at the calc readings.

So what is the boil gravity & what / how do I fix it?

If I don't know what the entry's / settings are Ive simply left them as they came!

[Otto Von Blotto]

Boil gravity is the SG of the wort you are boiling. Usually you'd aim for about 1.040, which you should achieve with the grain steeping wort plus another 4-5 litres of water and a few hundred grams of extract. It does make a difference to the utilisation of the hops. 

Sounds like the software thinks you're throwing the entire amount of extract into the boil. I'm not sure how you fix that in that software as I've never used it.

[Norris!]

Try checking "late addition" box in the fermentables area. On Beersmith you have the option of choosing after the boil, I think this will fix it. You have to split the fermentables into those that are not late additions, so those will have no check and with additions that have a check for late additions. Your early additions, without the box checked, would be the speciality grains and any addition malt to get to 1.040. After the boil you then add the rest of the fermentables, which are ID by having a check in the box.

Norris

[Mikes15]

Ok so,,,

500g of Ultra light ext boiled as previous,

2.5kg of it fermented, late addition

OG = 1.045

FG= 1011

ABV= 4.45%,

IBU's= 161.92, Might need to look at those hop additions,,,,, 

 

[Norris!]

9 hours ago, Mikes15 said:

IBU's= 161.92, Might need to look at those hop additions,,,,, 

 

Have you come up with a hop schedule? I worked some numbers up encase you might need them. The figures are for a 10l boil, with 1kg of fermentables, so it will be a little higher than a 6l or 5l boil.

10g Moutere 60min 22ibu. This will give the beer a solid bitterness backbone.

25g Citra and galaxy 5min boil for 7.3 and 8.6ibus. that gives a total of 38ibus which is a fair balance to the OG of 1.044.

25g Moutere steeped for 10min once the temp has dropped below 80c. If you add it before it drops below 80c it will add some bitterness.

Then you could do a pretty massive dry hop with whatever is left over... or restrain yourself and save some for a rainy da...ah who am I kidding, I would toss em all in.

I hope this gives you some inspiration. Good luck with the batch!

Norris

[Beerlust]

Hi MikeS15.

Norris is certainly on the right track with his advised hop schedule that will produce a very drinkable & enjoyable beer. The thing is, everyone's tastes are different. What one person likes, another may not etc. The hopping schedule of a beer is very important in creating aspects of beer flavour & bitterness.

If you're not already, start to document your brews. As you make shifts & changes, & experiment more in certain areas of brewing it becomes very helpful to look back on notes you have made about previous brews to help you make suitable adjustments moving forward. It'll help take a lot of the guesswork out of your brewing & help you produce more consistent beers you are proud of & enjoy drinking on a more regular basis. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Norris!]

Great points Lusty. The brew journal has helped me craft my beers just the way I like. It has really helped when I have had issues and trying to figure out why and where. My base of beers are not as extensive as some, ah Mr Ben10 with like a billion brews on the books, but there is only one way to fix that!

[Mikes15]

15 hours ago, Norris! said:

Have you come up with a hop schedule? I worked some numbers up encase you might need them. The figures are for a 10l boil, with 1kg of fermentables, so it will be a little higher than a 6l or 5l boil.

10g Moutere 60min 22ibu. This will give the beer a solid bitterness backbone.

25g Citra and galaxy 5min boil for 7.3 and 8.6ibus. that gives a total of 38ibus which is a fair balance to the OG of 1.044.

25g Moutere steeped for 10min once the temp has dropped below 80c. If you add it before it drops below 80c it will add some bitterness.

Then you could do a pretty massive dry hop with whatever is left over... or restrain yourself and save some for a rainy da...ah who am I kidding, I would toss em all in.

I hope this gives you some inspiration. Good luck with the batch!

Norris

Hadn't looked at it yet, put your schedule in for a 6L boil with the 2L 300g steeped grains & 500g ULME=

10g Moutere 60min = 27
25g Citra + Galaxy 5mins = 8 + 10.3
25g Moutere FO steep 10mins = 24.4
IBUS= 69.6

For a 10L boil with 1kg + 2kg late add Im getting 67.3IBU so it seems were splitting hairs over the pot / boil size, I want to try an keep it a lighter beer hence ULME & understand not to boil to much or for to long to get this with extract.

Calc guide says 30-50 for a APA, intend this to be more of a NEIPA / modern craft APA so possibly that IBU level is good?

I have 70g of Galaxy & will order others as 100G so would be nice to do 50g each total & get 2 brews so DH would be;
45g Galaxy
25g Citra
15g Moutere

PS - only using the S-04 as its surplus, brewed it at lower temps before with a good result.

Appreciate the help, I'm getting to know which Hops I like but up to now really only been DH'ing or copying others hop teas with no idea on which hops do what etc., also not really making the same beers twice at this stage as Ive moved from kit, to kit+ now more to extract so it keeps changing.

[Norris!]

The Moutere steep would be 0ibus if you put those hops in after the temp drops below 80c, so ignore those ibus unless you want more bitterness? With the 90g of hops listed, for dry hopping, you could split them into 2 dry hops for this 1 brew, add half the hops during fermentation so day 2 or 3 and then dry hop the remaining hops at end of fermentation, this is biotranformation which for most NEIPA recipes is standard. I gives the beer some cloudiness that along with other ingredients like oats and wheat.

Brewing software will get you in the ballpark but as Lusty noted, good notes will eventually help out even more. You will get a feel for you equipment and what the software is telling you and then adjust accordingly. We are splitting hairs over the pot size  I question either your or my software as a 10l boil should get higher efficiency and IBUS than a 6l boil, so I think the ibus would be slightly lower than the 69 or 45ish without the ibus from the Moutere steep. Either way you are within the ibu range for Apa's.

Good brewing,

Norris

[Otto Von Blotto]

Even if you put them in at flameout they wouldn't contribute 24 IBUs. As the wort cools, the rate of isomerisation drops. It's about half what it is at boiling point when it reaches 90C and it doesn't take long to get there. Even less time if you start cooling it with a cold water bath or something.

[Mikes15]

Thanks guys,

The Brewers Friend Cal has an "Aroma" option for hop additions, that what I selected for the 25g Moutere using 10mins, if I put them in as a 0min boil they give 0 IBU which I thought was wrong, obviously not!

With that in order, IBU's for the 6L boil are 45.19, if I back off the 60min boil to 30min the Moutere drops from 26.9 to 20.7 giving a total IBU of 38.97, what you had Norris but would that loose the Bitterness back bone you intended from the Moutere?

Colour indicated is light golden, fingers crossed as that's what Im aiming for.

Went to order today, all excited,, 

Bloody  HBS is out of ULME,,,,,,

PS- Renamed it "My 1st NEIPA" !!

[Norris!]

I think a 30 minute addition would work just as well. Moutere is high alpha acids hop so it will still give a good backbone at 30 min. I think you will have a nice brew those hops should go well together. The Moutere sounds pretty good, like magnum but with flavour.

Let's us know how it goes Mike