headmaster Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Low to moderate hop aroma US Amber Ale is supposed to have. Common problem is palate fatigue, even though the judges have water and crackers to have between beers, I have heard that after judging many beers in a row, anything that is not showing up in a fairly strong way can get lost due to this fatigue. So if you want to bias aromas or flavours it may work to aim higher rather than lower to wow the fatigued palates.. Luck of the draw as to when your beer actually gets judged though of course. Also as mentioned before, it can be as simple as the serving methods and prevailing drafts of wind. In the comps I've stewarded at, they pour say 200ml into a full sized jug. It may take a minute or two for this to be taken out to the judges. There's lots of surface area for the volatile and fleeting hop oils to escape. If there's a breeze it will blow away the aroma in the jug and also in the often less than ideal tasting glasses. Some judges hold their hands over the top of the glass, or put a coaster on it to try and save or concentrate the aromas so that they can be evaluated properly. So your amber may well have still had 'Low to moderate hop aroma' and therefore not marked down in any way regarding that, it's just possible that the judges for whatever reason including the above couldn't detect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I've had to assess wine in a professional environment, so understand the palate adjustment/water & crackers routine very well. I wasn't disappointed at all with how it was judged. Most of what the judges did highlight was spot on I thought. I appreciate what all the judges say & do. I don't take it all too seriously. I was just curious about where the beer was at in relation to the interpretation of the style guidelines, & appreciated the feedback. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 Was it a recipe similar to your Amber I once made that you entered Beerlust? 1.5kg LME 0.5kg DME 500g munich 350g medium crystal 100g chocolate malt 200g carahell 20g centenial @60 (5L boil) 10g mosaic @20 5g mosaic @10 10g mosaic @0 (flame-out) 20g mosaic dry Wyeast London Ale III 1318 21L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 6 hours ago, King Ruddager said: Was it a recipe similar to your Amber I once made that you entered Beerlust? 1.5kg LME 0.5kg DME 500g munich 350g medium crystal 100g chocolate malt 200g carahell 20g centenial @60 (5L boil) 10g mosaic @20 5g mosaic @10 10g mosaic @0 (flame-out) 20g mosaic dry Wyeast London Ale III 1318 21L Indeed it was Ruddy. This batch came out a little darker than normal & wasn't as hoppy on the nose as some of my past versions, but I was still happy with it, & how it was judged. One of the judges said he would have liked a little more complexity in the malt bill, so I'll take that & the other judges' comments all on board. All good. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 Perhaps an all-grain version would help in this area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 51 minutes ago, King Ruddager said: Perhaps an all-grain version would help in this area? This particular aspect of your personal persona I have genuinely always enjoyed. Cya in the Amber Ale category next year Ruddy! Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 On 8/5/2018 at 8:38 PM, joolbag said: Results are in chaps. For those who have ever considered entering a beer for fun or just curious, I say do it. The feedback you get will be invaluable and you might just get lucky! Results are: Riwaka Pilsner - Czech Premium Pale Lager Well these judges really know their stuff. The judging notes say the hop aroma is too high, hop flavour too high, malt is lost amongst the hops. Bitterness low for the style ad suggested a deconcoction mash / melanoidin malt addition to increase the Martinez. Couldn't agree more and no surprises I didn't score well for this beer. Brewdog Dead Pony Club - American Pale Ale Suggested more bitterness and it is too dark and too much specialty malts for style. More like an American Amber. Totally agree, it has a huge crystal and dark crystal malt addition as per the DIY Dog recipe. And it has barely any hops added during boil and steep. 13.5g at 60min, 13.5g flame out and the dry hop is big, 200+ grams. My American Wheat did really well, taking out 3rd place in the group. The big surprise for me was my hazy, oaty XPA. I was umming and ahhing about entering it and the best fit I could find was session NEIPA. I thought it was too bitter and colour was a tad orange rather than the hazy yellow I've come to expect. Well the judges (2) liked it and I'm still pinching myself, but I took out 1st in that group! So for those considering entering a beer into a LHBS comp, or the state comp, just do it. The feedback is great alone and the chance of a prize is there if the judges like your beer and it scores well against others in the style/category/group. Reading the results and seeing my name twice on the winners podium made my day. Temporarily distracted me from my sore legs following a 43km cycling individual time trial! Mate, just wondering how all this goes down. When your beer is sampled by the judges, do they ask if the brewer is in the house and do you have to answer any questions? Or do they not say too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Hey mate I have entered two comps and attended zero! I'll let the experienced stewards and judges answer what goes on at a comp. I've only heard second hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Ok cool, i have one entered for comp 22nd September. I am going to go so was just wondering what happens. Anyone else here going to vicbrew 2018. Would love to catch up with anyone in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Hi Titan, The brewer is not consulted, in fact even the bottle that contained the brew being judged is hidden from the judges, in case it might give away the brewer and bias their judgement somehow. Not much talking goes on, needs to be a quiet environment. Think like a library. Judges usually work in pairs, but only compare notes/scores towards the end of the 10 to 15 mins spent on each beer. So if judging in pairs, your entry fee means that you get two judges deliberating over your pride and joy for a combined total of 20 to 30 minutes. Not bad for $7 or so. The judges and stewards are volunteers, not getting any form of payment apart from a free lunch and of course, a bit of beer.. Usually on the entry sheet you simply put the category and the style. No mention of ABV, OG, FG but if special ingredients were used as permitted by some categories, you have the option to elaborate with some notes about that. Like if entering a NEIPA into the Specialty IPA category, you would state that this is an American 'New England' style IPA. Or if entering a beer into the specialty category, say a 'Breakfast Stout' you may nominate that the base beer style is a Russian Imperial Stout, and the specialty ingredients are coffee and cacoa nibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Happily suggest taking the chance to steward brew comps, it's more fun than judging and often judges will suggest stewards sample outstanding or flawed beers to learn more about the style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, Mark D Pirate said: Happily suggest taking the chance to steward brew comps, it's more fun than judging and often judges will suggest stewards sample outstanding or flawed beers to learn more about the style. I wouldn't mind giving it a go one day. Do all stewards have to wear tuxedo t-shirts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 I'm planning to enter the Qld one next year. Might even attend it depending on where it's held. Probably put my pilsner in and maybe a pale ale too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 17 hours ago, Hairy said: I wouldn't mind giving it a go one day. Do all stewards have to wear tuxedo t-shirts? Only if you really want to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Thanks headmaster good info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 You know what ... I might just convert Lusty's amber to all grain myself, or at least the grain bill. What's the target OG and IBUs on this one anyway @Beerlust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Hi Ruddy. OG is typically around 1.046, with FG finishing around 1.012-13. The yeast you use will have an impact on FG. I mainly use Wyeast 1318 to ferment it, but have used 1728 with some victory malt on top of the standard grain bill, that also produced a nice result. Best of luck with it. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 Okie dokie, well first conversion came out with an OG of 1.035 which did seemed kinda low, so I bumped up the munich and ale malt and now I've got ... 63.5% ale (3.2kg) 20% munich (1.0kg) 9% medium crystal (450g) 5% carahell (250g) 2.5% chocolate (125g) Might still add a little more base to that. Victory would dry it out a bit, wouldn't it? Also, what about the IBUs? I need to know whether to buy another bag of magnum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Just be mindful about upping the chocolate malt, as this is the malt primarily responsible for throwing the amber hue in the beer. Even small increase adjustments can darken & alter the flavour of the beer noticeably. 20 minutes ago, King Ruddager said: ...Victory would dry it out a bit, wouldn't it? It shouldn't. It didn't when I used it in this recipe. A nutty type flavour is most common from it. It's interesting when I used it with the 1728 yeast it wasn't as noticeable as it was when I used the 1318 strain. 22 minutes ago, King Ruddager said: ...Also, what about the IBUs? Everyone's bitterness likes & dislikes are different but I have stayed in the range of 29-34 IBU's. Amber Ales aren't traditionally a very bitter beer to the taste though. 29 minutes ago, King Ruddager said: ...I need to know whether to buy another bag of magnum If you have one bag of Magnum, then you already have one bag too many. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Results out for the NSW State comp https://nsw-brewing-championships.org/ Jools, you placed twice with two thirds!! Very well done, congrats! Blonde Ale in the Pale Ale Cat 4 and American Wheat in the Wheat and Rye Ale category. Better get ready for the National comp held late Oct in Melbourne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Congrats Joolbag! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Thanks chaps, what a great way to start the day! Congrats to you Headmaster with you Bo Pils result. Very close result in that category and a score of 80 is a truly amazing beer. I hope I can sample some at the next ISB meeting! @headmasterHow does it work for the Nationals? Because I placed I can enter these two categories again? What is the strategy, submit beers from the same batch, or brew a fresh one (as the American Wheat in particular is supposed to be a hoppy one)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Brew a fresh batch if fresh is better; especially for hoppy beers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Appreciate that Jools, and yeah I've actually completely run out of that BoPils, that last bottle, that was a 750 champagne bottle, sat in the fridge for a couple of months lagering after bottle conditioning. I do know someone who may have held on to some who I gave some to, if they have stored cold I may ask for it back and send that. Otherwise I am lagering the next batch of the same beer, although I did modify slightly by subbing some melanoiden for carapils. So I think the one in the comp had approx 300g carapils, this latest one 100g and made up the rest with 200g melanoiden. Tastes good so far in the FV,. This may be ready by the time we have to submit the bottles, but would be better if lagered longer I suspect. For eg I read once that Pislner Urquell age in bottle for 90 days before releasing them out of the brewery. In any case I will bring in some of the new batch to an ISB meet and see what you think of it. So in answer to your question, as Hairy says it really depends on the beer. Although as you found, your NEIPA held up very well with age, so can also depend on how you have stored the beer, in particular the temps, how much O2 may be in it, was it bottle conditioned, which would tend to scavenge the O2 etc. Oh yeah and yes you can enter those categories that you placed in, I can't quite be sure if you are limited to that exact style, will have to check but I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Looking at your particular styles, the blonde and the american wheat, I suspect they are often better fresh, possibly more so for the wheat. Certainly german wheats are better fresh. If you have only just brewed these batches though, you may be better off cold storing them and running with the existing batches. I'm guessing there may only be about 5 weeks before they will need to be at a nominated brewshop for transport to Melbourne for this comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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