Take THAT, BJCP style guidelines

[King Ruddager]

The Hallertau I just added for bittering to my Oktoberfest smells so good I'm going to add a good amount of late and dry hops to it as well. Hop-toberfest, here we come!

I just hope they don't still drag people away for this sort of transgression ...

[Otto Von Blotto]

Meh, I add late hops to lagers too. I like the influence they give.

[King Ruddager]

So I'm thinking of entering the state brewing competition and ... well ... I guess I blew my chances on this one as it breaks the "no aroma" rule  Shame, because it's pretty nice

[joolbag]

Just do it KR! I entered a Riwaka NZ pils as a Pale Czech Lager. Will be interesting with the feedback they give. I love the beer, one of the best lagers I have brewed but it certainly is not to style either

[Gullys Brewing]

Was looking at these comps coming up. 2 of them Gawler show then the state homebrew one.

Early days for me but next year I recon I'll give some compedative brewing a go.

Cheers

Gully

[Hairy]

I have entered comps in the past. If you are not brewing to style then I wouldn't bother. Unless you want to add it into the Specialty Beer category with hundreds of other people.

[Otto Von Blotto]

If they judge the pilsner according to the style, which they will, then it probably won't fare well. It may well be a very nice beer itself  but it's not really a Czech pale lager if it's got Riwaka in it. They'll have to include those styles in future guidelines though since they are becoming more popular.

[headmaster]

I'm actually in the middle of doing my BJCP beer judge certification, have attended  group sessions over the past few months have passed the entrance exam and have the judging exam on the 19th of this month.. need to do a lot more study of the style guideline to have a chance at exceeding the 70% required to become certified. I may be judging at the NSW state comp this year if I can make it there up the central coast somewhere I believe this year. 

[The Captain!!]

Tip the hat to ya Headmaster. 

[headmaster]

Thankyou THECAPTAIN

KR, the guidelines for hop aroma and flavour have quite a range in the oktoberfest beers, if it fits in the 4B 'festbier' category  rather than the stronger 6A 'Marzen'. which does say no hop aroma. 

From 2015 Guidelines

4B. Festbier
Overall Impression: A smooth, clean, pale German lager
with a moderately strong malty flavor and a light hop
character. Deftly balances strength and drinkability, with a
palate impression and finish that encourages drinking.
Showcases elegant German malt flavors without becoming too
heavy or filling.
Aroma: Moderate malty richness, with an emphasis on toastydoughy
aromatics and an impression of sweetness. Low to
medium-low floral, herbal, or spicy hops. The malt should not
have a deeply toasted, caramel, or biscuity quality. Clean lager
fermentation character.
Appearance: Deep yellow to deep gold color; should not have
amber hues. Bright clarity. Persistent white to off-white foam
stand. Most commercial examples are medium gold in color.
Flavor: Medium to medium-high malty flavor initially, with a
lightly toasty, bread dough quality and an impression of soft
sweetness. Medium to medium-low bitterness, definitely malty
in the balance. Well-attenuated and crisp, but not dry.
Medium-low to medium floral, herbal, or spicy hop flavor.
Clean lager fermentation character. The taste is mostly of Pils
malt, but with slightly toasty hints. The bitterness is
supportive, but still should yield a malty, flavorful finish.

Style Comparison: Less intense and less richly toasted than
a Märzen. More rich-heavy in body than a Helles, with more
hop flavor and higher alcohol. Less rich in malt intensity than a
Maibock. The malt complexity is similar to a higher-gravity
Czech Premium Pale Lager, although without the associated
hops.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.054 – 1.057
IBUs: 18 – 25 FG: 1.010 – 1.012
SRM: 4 – 7 ABV: 5.8 – 6.3%

 

 

[joolbag]

14 hours ago, Hairy said:

I have entered comps in the past. If you are not brewing to style then I wouldn't bother. Unless you want to add it into the Specialty Beer category with hundreds of other people.

Good point. I want to get feedback on any obvious flaws other than not to style. $5 per entry I should get decent feedback I hope and ROI

[Beerlust]

Having a beer judged by a group that has knowledge on the style is a good thing, but don't take how your beer was judged as gospel, as there is always room for interpretation within the style that may or may not be exacting on your interpretation of the style.

What I'm basically saying is if you don't brew it to how the individual judges interpret the style, it probably won't be marked as highly. 

Don't lose heart though.

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Malter White]

I think you're all mad. I say that with much affection.
Having your beer judged? From my limited experience in brewing I judge my own beer. If I think it turned out ok I offer it to friends. If they don't want a second it probably means my judgement isn't so good. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Lusty I think a NZ pilsner would be pretty obviously not to style for a pale Czech lager category for any competition judge. They're completely different beers. That's a little bit out of the "room for interpretation"

I don't doubt that Jools' beer is a nice beer, but it's not a Czech lager. I suppose it's up to the judges whether they give feedback other than style related comments; I'm guessing too fruity would be a common one but I am interested to see what feedback it gets.

[King Ruddager]

20 hours ago, headmaster said:

if it fits in the 4B 'festbier' category ...

Ooh, I think it does!!

Might be slightly too dark ... I'll need to check. What you've posted though describes it very well

[headmaster]

I'd say go for it. What have you got to lose?? For my very first comp, the 2016 NSW state comp, I submitted a pretty strong ale, that was designed to be a Red IIPA, but it was too sweet, so I put it in as an American Barleywine, and it took out first place in the Strong Ales category! That was great beginners luck motivation for me to keep on brewin'

 

[joolbag]

Hey chaps, some good discussion above and headmaster comment particularly resonates with me.  Why not?! Especially in a category like American Pale Ale or American IPA where the style is more open than say the Pale Czech Lager or a Kölsch.

 

Kelsey I entered one beer into the state comp last year and got some good feedback on the American Pale Ale (Citra/Centennial/Cascade). Definitely worth the $7 entry fee and the loss of a glass bottle. Detailed notes as you would expect on appearance, aroma, flavour, mouthful, etc as per the BJCP judging form.

 

I was toying with the idea of entering/not entering the Riwaka pils, but at the last minute decided why the hell not! Good to support the local brewing store competition and scene. I entered four beers in total; an APA, my Simcarillo wheat ale in the American Wheat category and a hazy, oaty ale under session NEIPA.

 

I'll share the feedback when I get it.  Judging is this weekend.

 

@MUZZY I share plenty of beer with friends, family, colleagues and they always say the beer was nice. I suspect they want more and would say it was nice even if it wasn't perfect. The ones with better palate will tell me what flavour they pick up, what they liked about it, etc

[Beerlust]

6 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Lusty I think a NZ pilsner would be pretty obviously not to style for a pale Czech lager category for any competition judge. They're completely different beers. That's a little bit out of the "room for interpretation"

I was just talking about having beers judged in general, not specifically Joolbag's beer.

1 minute ago, joolbag said:

I was toying with the idea of entering/not entering the Riwaka pils, but at the last minute decided why the hell not! Good to support the local brewing store competition and scene. I entered four beers in total; an APA, my Simcarillo wheat ale in the American Wheat category and a hazy, oaty ale under session NEIPA.

I'll share the feedback when I get it.  Judging is this weekend.

Best of luck Joolbag!

Cheers,

Lusty.

[joolbag]

Thanks @Beerlust. It's all for fun and thanks to this forum my beers and brewing has improved out of sight.

 

I understand what you mean about individual perception. My APA last year was judged by a provisional judge and an accredited judge. The comments and scores were quite different. Eg provisional detected diacetyl. Accredited wrote "no traces of diacetyl".

Hmmmmm 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Diacetyl is another one of those things that people have different perception thresholds of. Could simply be that the judges' thresholds were different and if it was there one simply couldn't taste it in that concentration. I don't know what mine is, I've never tasted it in my beers. I wonder sometimes if others might though.

[Beerlust]

9 minutes ago, joolbag said:

I understand what you mean about individual perception. My APA last year was judged by a provisional judge and an accredited judge. The comments and scores were quite different. Eg provisional detected diacetyl. Accredited wrote "no traces of diacetyl".

Hmmmmm 

That's exactly what I meant with how individuals assess & interpret. 

[Beer Baron]

Maybe we need a thread that lists all the upcoming competitions. I would be interested in entering a comp............Maybe

[headmaster]

State comps are coming up, NSW is 15th 16th Sep, and beers usually need to be submitted a couple of weeks beforehand. Other state comps will be on round the same time, details here: http://www.aabc.org.au/

If you place in these comps you can enter the nationals. 

[Beer Baron]

2 minutes ago, headmaster said:

State comps are coming up, NSW is 15th 16th Sep, and beers usually need to be submitted a couple of weeks beforehand. Other state comps will be on round the same time, details here: http://www.aabc.org.au/

If you place in these comps you can enter the nationals. 

Thanks Headmaster. The next comp is 20 minutes away as Gosford. I might have to have a look and see if I can get something organised

[BlackSands]

21 hours ago, joolbag said:

Thanks @Beerlust. It's all for fun and thanks to this forum my beers and brewing has improved out of sight.

 

I understand what you mean about individual perception. My APA last year was judged by a provisional judge and an accredited judge. The comments and scores were quite different. Eg provisional detected diacetyl. Accredited wrote "no traces of diacetyl".

Hmmmmm 

Interestingly, BJCP judges appear not to rank any higher than anyone else when it comes to judging your brew:

http://brulosophy.com/2016/01/21/investigating-the-bad-palates-argument-a-graphical-look-at-xbmt-performance-based-on-experience-level/#more-48879

 

Quote

While it might be easy to assume a person who has invested the time and energy to become a BJCP judge has an extraordinary palate, these results appear to suggest they possess tasting abilities similar to, well… everybody else.