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Reusing yeast - the starter method


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I dunno, I didn't try boiling wort on it, but if it boils water it will boil wort. The instance the other day was about 4 litres of water in the big flask. It certainly got pretty hot, I just didn't leave it there long enough to boil. It felt weird after so many years boiling these things on gas and I was (probably needlessly) worried about it cracking the flask. 

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  • 7 months later...

In the next 3 months I’ll look at doing this but I just have to research how long the yeast will last in the fridge. I only brew about once a month and if I am brewing different styles and using different yeasts then they might sit in the fridge for 6-9 months. 

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I use a combination of yeast calculators and my own observations. I observed a viability of around 85% after 45 days in a sample of Budvar I had sitting in the fridge a couple of years ago. At the same time, the yeast calculators had it under 70. I figure after 2 months it's probably around 80% so I work off 75% viability to be a little conservative. Done the job so far. 

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  • 6 months later...

I just made my first starter for (hopefully) use tomorrow. Approx 2L wort and pitched the yeast. I've shaken it vigorously about 5 times in the past few hours. (no stir bar system) 

I came back here to double check the process and found this in the OP...

"When I got home from work, the wort was cool enough for the yeast to be pitched. I took the jar out of the fridge, tipped most of the "beer" off the yeast, then swirled it up and pitched it."

The only way I can make sense of this is you made a starter from an already saved previous starter. i.e. you got the jar from the fridge and added to your new wort rather than using dried or liquid yeast. Correct?

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It's been not quite a day and I'm wondering if this is working. The starter bubbles up when I shake it up and if there was ever a Kraussen it wasn't much better than a slightly thicker layer of bubbles that went within a short time. But other than that, this is what it looks like. Is it dead? Did it finish quickly and now is just waiting for wort?

I put about 210 gm LDME in and 2 pkts Nott yeast. I was expecting to get something like a mini-brew and I thought if it was done and dusted the liquid would have cleared somewhat. Also, it smells OK, yeasty but not beery.

I did find out that even with the lid loose, tightening it to shake the bottle demonstrates the plastic insert in the lid for sealing it is NOT attached to the metal lid. 😄 Loud POP! and brew sprayed across and area... and me. 😄 

 

image.png.3ebf67c5b9d0258a074ff361cd9e8d33.png

Edited by Journeyman
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3 hours ago, Journeyman said:

I put about 210 gm LDME in and 2 pkts Nott yeast. I was expecting to get something like a mini-brew and I thought if it was done and dusted the liquid would have cleared somewhat. Also, it smells OK, yeasty but not beery.

 

Bloody hell that is a massive amount of yeast for a small amount of wort.  Is that normal? 

When I used 11.5g of Nott in a recent brew the Krausen was massive in a very short time say 24 hours.

Maybe they all killed each other trying to get their share of a single sugar molecule, ha ha.

Cheers - AL

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8 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Bloody hell that is a massive amount of yeast for a small amount of wort.  Is that normal? 

When I used 11.5g of Nott in a recent brew the Krausen was massive in a very short time say 24 hours.

Maybe they all killed each other trying to get their share of a single sugar molecule, ha ha.

Cheers - AL

They are smaller than usual - 5.5g pkts. So only 11 g in the mix for a starter. And the jar is bigger than it looks - it holds 4L all up.

I ended up pitching it all in the brew I made today. If it doesn't take off I still have some more yeast I can chuck at the brew.

I didn't have an answer on whether it was normal when I completed the brew so I figured I'd try again next time.

Edited by Journeyman
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I just went through a similar process for my Coopers Mild Ale which was pitched on Sunday morning from a starter that was made six days before.

I very carefully decanted 6 Coopers Mild Ale stubbies that had been sitting in the drinks fridge for about 3 weeks, left about 10mm of beer and yeast sediment, loosely screwed each lid back on while I drank all the rest.  The empty stubbies were just left at room temp while I waited for the 500ml of boiling water and 60g of plain white sugar to cool down.

Once the water/sugar was at room temp just tipped a bit into each stubbie.  Swirled them around to get as much yeast sediment/dregs as possible.  Then each stubbie’s dregs were tipped into a sanitised 1.25 litre PET bottle.

I would give the starter a shake several times each day.  The lid was on tight and each time I just loosened the lid, squeezed out excess gas the re-sealed the lid so the PET would have a big dimple in it.  It would foam right up each shake but soon disappear. 

I figured this is just like brewing a beer so it was kept in my FV fridge at 18C and this I think was a mistake.

Realising after a few days the starter did to seem to have much zing in it, although it would pump up the PET tight each time.

Another mistake as I think the pressure once it got to a certain point shut the yeast down somewhat.  

Transferred the starter into a cardboard box with a couple of PET bottles filled with hot water (not touching) to bump it up to mid 20C and that made a big difference.

When I pitched mine there was only about 4 – 5 mm of yeast cake on the bottom of the starter bottle and that worried me, so much I started to make another starter batch but this time using some of the wort just put into the FV.

Looked at wort 14 hours after pitching and not a bubble, flat as a tack so reckoned a packet of yeast would have to go in but took the risk, left the FV at 21 -22 overnight and next morning some18 hours later nice Krausen starting to form. Hope it has not been under pitched that’s all.

Cheers - AL

Coopers Mild Ale day 1.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Journeyman said:

They are smaller than usual - 5.5g pkts. So only 11 g in the mix for a starter. And the jar is bigger than it looks - it holds 4L all up.

I ended up pitching it all in the brew I made today. If it doesn't take off I still have some more yeast I can chuck at the brew.

I didn't have an answer on whether it was normal when I completed the brew so I figured I'd try again next time.

Fair enough JM - all good, maybe it just needed more time, warmer temp.   I thought is was a small jar mate.  Reckon yours will be ok.

I planned to pitch my go at this process on the Friday but keep holding off as it just did not look enough yeast.  When I pitched on Sunday I thought this is not going to work and what is my "get out of gaol" plan.  in a panic made another starter but only had 5 stubbies left by then.   Did have a spare pale ale kit yeast but then that deviates from the recipe.  Now that first one is munching away beautifully I will have to do another Mild Ale batch now to use up that second starter.

Cheers - AL

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15 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

I will have to do another Mild Ale batch now to use up that second starter.

Well, that's a bugger. 😄 

The brew sat longer than my usual without much activity. So prior to bed I pitched a pack of tin yeast on top, closed it and headed off. The lack of early activity has now happened twice and both times I deviated from my normal process. Last time I just rehydrated the yeast and this time I made the starter and poured that all in.  Usually I have Krauseen forming within a couple of hours so I tend to panic a little when 6 hours later the surface has a few bubbles only.

So I'm going back to the more apparently successful action I think. Start the yeast in warm (~25°) water with a spoonful of sugar in it, let it get active for ~30 mins then pitch.

I saw @Otto Von Blotto's comment at top of page about stirring affecting things and that made me wonder, why do we stir it? 

I mean we stir the FV at the start, aerating it to kick off the yeast, but after that we leave it strictly alone, so why stir the starter? I realised I had an assumption sitting in back of mind that it's needed to make the yeast hyper and produce a starter earlier than we get with the brew, but then I realised I've also seen something about the reason for leaving the FV alone after pitching is because the O2 mixing harms the process.

So why stir the starter so much?

I will try another starter but this time treat it like a brew - make the starter, stir the hell out of it before pitching, stir in the yeast and leave it alone. Unless the gurus here can explain why I shouldn't... 😄 )

Edited by Journeyman
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15 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

I planned to pitch my go at this process on the Friday but keep holding off as it just did not look enough yeast. 

You can see yeast in my pic - doesn't look much but compared to 2 x 5.5 g pkts, that's a lot of yeast. It's just spread out over a base about 25 cm wide. I would think there's also some in suspension in the liquid, contributing to the milky appearance. So I think it all worked and just my worry about lack of apparent head on it was my problem.

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Stirred starters grow more cells. 

A starter is obviously made with the sole purpose of growing yeast cells, unlike a batch of beer. Stirring it keeps adding oxygen during the first day or however long the stir plate is run for. This is beneficial in a starter but you don't want it happening in a proper batch because it could ruin it. It doesn't really matter what the starter "beer" tastes like because most of it is tipped out unless the thing is pitched while it's active. 

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  • 1 month later...

I boo-booed my starter after the last batch - left it on the bench for 3 days. Cap was on, not quite tight, everything sanitised before I poured it off the previous starter mix and temps haven't been extreme here.

I opened it, smelled OK but there were some small white floaty dots on the surface - looked kinda like opaque bubbles but flat. I moved it into a different place for better light to get a pic and they had disappeared. I'm sure they weren't just bobbles though. Other than them the 'beer' on top was clear and it smelled fine with a tinge of alcohol 'bite' to the aroma.

I put it in the fridge and it seems OK; just checked and still smells OK, slight hint of cider maybe?

Still good or should I start over?

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3 hours ago, The Captain!! said:

Is it worth loosing a whole batch of beer if its not??

Good point. Got a couple of days dry hops and a couple more CC so will see what it is like at that point. I was hoping someone would say, "No, it's fine! See that all the time." 😄

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I almost always use US-05 but have been using Kelsey's starter method for the last 4 batches without any issues. Started with one pack of US-05 into a 2L starter (I do not have a stirrer or heater, just left it at ambient and gave it a shake every now and then in the flask). Then wait for it to ferment, mix it up, store 750ml into a PET bottle and store in fridge, then cold crash the remainder, tip off the excess and pitch. No issues thus far.

However, I never (even when pitching packs directly into the wort) had action after 2-3 hours. Most of my beers start showing active fermentation after 18-24 hours or so.

I would never stress unless I didn't see any action after 48 hours.

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