Brad2027 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Hey Lads, Still learning the ropes and hoping i could get some advise RE Lagers. My current brew is my 4th brew, Each of my others have had a little success (or enough to keep me striving for more!) Up until now i have done a few pales and a lager with ice / towels / etc / etc. This time i am trying a coopers lager with a few bits and pieces however i am doing in a freezer with full temp control, I have opted for a Morgans premium yeast (hopefully thats not a banned word here!) and i am fermenting around 12dg. My question is; Now doing full temp control at that temperature with a premium yeast i am wondering if fermentation time is longer then the can yeasts that i have been using, Usually i have reached FG within around 6/7 days, I am wondering when i should take the hydro readings being i am now using temp control method, Or does nothing change?? I have noticed that it seems the airlock is not going gangbusters like when at higher temperature, I am assuming everything is working but i am just not seeing the action in the airlock as i did pre temp control (It is however letting off the same smell , You know that fermenty smell lol) Anyways any help would be great, Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngie Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Hey Lads' date=' Still learning the ropes and hoping i could get some advise RE Lagers.My current brew is my 4th brew, Each of my others have had a little success (or enough to keep me striving for more!) Up until now i have done a few pales and a lager with ice / towels / etc / etc. This time i am trying a coopers lager with a few bits and pieces however i am doing in a freezer with full temp control, I have opted for a Morgans premium yeast (hopefully thats not a banned word here!) and i am fermenting around 12dg. My question is; Now doing full temp control at that temperature with a premium yeast i am wondering if fermentation time is longer then the can yeasts that i have been using, Usually i have reached FG within around 6/7 days, I am wondering when i should take the hydro readings being i am now using temp control method, Or does nothing change?? I have noticed that it seems the airlock is not going gangbusters like when at higher temperature, I am assuming everything is working but i am just not seeing the action in the airlock as i did pre temp control (It is however letting off the same smell , You know that fermenty smell lol) Anyways any help would be great, Thanks all! [/quote'] Hi. It has been a while since I have brewed a lager, maybe I need to lol. Silly question but did you use the Morgan’s Premium Lager Yeast? What is your batch size and starting gravity? Generally when making lagers more yeast is required. When I make a 22L batch I pitch 2 packets of W34/70. My fermentation times for lagers is longer and I always raise my temperature slowly towards 18 for a diacetyl rest when the beer has nearly finished fermenting. Youngie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I brew a lot of lagers, and get them to FG in somewhere between 8 and 10 days. So, there's no need for it to be taking weeks or anything like some cats seem to think. Ignore the airlock, its activity is largely meaningless. Use and trust your hydrometer, look for visual signs; foam on top, condensation under the lid. Pitching a lot of yeast is a must for the clean flavor lagers are usually known for. They are usually pitched with about double the amount of yeast compared to ales. As an example timeframe, my fermentations start at 10 degrees, after 6 days (or when the SG drops to the low 1.020s) I let the FV rise to 18 degrees where it sits until 14 days have passed, and then it gets dropped to 0 degrees for 2 weeks before being kegged (or bottled). I check the FG after 10 and 12 days just to make sure it's finished. The extra few days it sits up there before being dropped to 0 is just to ensure the yeast clean up any off flavors before I send them into dormancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad2027 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 Thanks for the response guys, Appreciate the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Hi Guys, new question; http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers The above article Kelsey attached to a separate topic says; " ....Lagers are fermented with a bottom fermenting lager yeast (Saccaromyces pastorianus). These yeasts are able to ferment at lower temperatures than the top fermenting ale yeasts (Saccromyces Cervesiae). The result of this low temperature fermentation and maturation is a beer with a cleaner flavor profile (less esters, less higher alcohols) than its top fermented counterpart. The extended cold storage (lagering) also makes these beers more shelf stable than ales which explains why most of the world's beers are of the lager variety....." My question is; Fermentis Saflager W34/70 and Saflager S23 are Saccromyces Cervesiae as indicated on their spec listings. How come these 'lager yeasts' are top fermenting and therefore in the 'ale' category? Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy81 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 On their website they state they are bottom fermenting yeast in the lager yeast category ? Fermentis Cheers, Hoppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 They changed them at some point to include all brewing yeasts under the same scientific name. The lager yeasts are still lager yeasts though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Hey guys just a question regarding lager yeast. Having a fridge full of ale yeast and if i decided to brew a lager using an ale yeast i would ferment at ale temperature. What effect would this have on the finished product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 47 minutes ago, Titan said: Hey guys just a question regarding lager yeast. Having a fridge full of ale yeast and if i decided to brew a lager using an ale yeast i would ferment at ale temperature. What effect would this have on the finished product? I once made a Coopers Golden Crown Lager into an Ale. Just substitued the yeast for US-05 and fermented at 18c. I also added a 15 minute SAAZ tea boil. It came out very nice. These are my documented comments at the time; "What a great beer. Carbonation, head retention great. Clarity pretty good. The 15min SAAZ boil and US05 yeast have left a beautiful light rounded bitterness with floral taste overtones. Grapefruit?" Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I've tried doing a lager with ale yeast and while it was nice it wasn't the same. There was more fruit in it, which I like but not in a traditional Euro lager. I don't think ale yeast gives the same crispness either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I brewed 2-3 of those pseudo-lagers using an ale yeast a few years ago, & for me they just don't cut it against a true lager yeast fermented brew. The biggest difference I noticed was the lager yeast strain leaves a fuller, more rounded malt character at the same well attenuated FG as the ale strain. To achieve a similar malt character with an ale strain I feel you have to leave more body in the final beer. By the same token, what the ale strain loses in malt character, it does (in many cases) offer a more hop friendly base for hops to shine, whereas the lager strain(s) do appear to subdue that aspect of the beer when hopped to the same levels. Just my 2 cents, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 In my opinion you are better off using one of the more temperature tolerant lager strains at a temperature on the low end of the ale fermentation range. I am quite sure that if you compared the end product to something fermented with Nottingham or US05 at the lowest temperature you can manage and they can handle, you would get a truer 'lager-like' character. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Thanks guys for the feedback. What i might do is a double lager batch and ferment 1 with a ale yeast at 18 and another at 12 with a lager yeast and try to compare the flavours. Other than the ferment i will treat both as lagers and condition accordingly. Eventually both of these will be kegged the same day and carbed at the same pressure. Now i just need another temperature controller lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Sounds like a great experiment and I am interested to hear how the 2 turn out. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Ok with repect to my experiment. Have just ordered a second inkbird controller and 2 packs of the Glasial NZ pilsner. I want to take human error of milling grains etc. Etc. I will mash both batches exactly as instructed then ferment 1 with a Nottingham ale yeast at 18 and the second with a lager yeast as directed in the instructions. Keen to see what the results are. Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Are you making a starter for the lager yeast? A big part of getting a great lager is pitching the right amount of yeast, usually a large amount. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Starters is the next adventure I will take on this incredible brewing journey. Im not really there with the equipment I need and a lot of research to be done. I will rehydrate and pitch 2 packets of yeast into both brews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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