Worthog Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I'm now drinking Kits'n'Bits batches with glass lacing, head retention, and I'll tell you why. 1. Malt inclusions rather than dextrose or Enhancers (I'm anti Maltodextrin) 2. I use Liquid Malt Extract but DME should be ok. 3. Always Addition of Steeping Grains (Caramalt, CaraHell, etc) at 300gms steeped 30mins@70c for a 23 litre batch. - one cannot underestimate this addition. 4. I have not yet proved lower attenuative yeast, eg Windsor, yet but working on it. I'm getting retention out of Nottingham and US-05 yeast including Kit yeast where necessary. I'm getting head retention in 3.5%ABV brews. 5. 4-6weeks in the bottle minimum. 6. PET bottles, or Glass gold capped. 1-3 were suggested by "Beerlust", Lusty. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Add late hops and dry hops to that list too, I can't remember what it is in hops right now that does it but something in them assists with head retention as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 Add late hops and dry hops to that list too' date=' I can't remember what it is in hops right now that does it but something in them assists with head retention as well.[/quote']Yes, a liberal lashing of late isohumulones (alpha acids from hops). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Worthog, nice and concise. Let's hope this doesn't turn into a 7+ page thread about "flat beer" and every beer recipe conceived to rectify it! Totally agree on your points + Kelsey's re: dry hops. Clean glass would be another too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worts and all Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Does anyone know of a link between water quality and head on beer?. I ask because I use rainwater,filtered but untreated,and head formation/ retention has never been a problem. I use Coopers kits,usually with a hop infusion before fermentation. Dark ales,porters and stout are especially good,with a fine generous and persistent foam down to the last lip-smacking drop. As Worthog suggests,fermentables are malt only. I bulk prime with 220g dextrose. As for beer glasses,they go in the dishwasher, and are fine. I am now assembling the macchiato stout from the Cooper’s recipe page. That has some chocolate grain infusion in the wort, which has me drooling in anticipation. I would appreciate if someone can throw light on the water aspect,and also why my darker beers have more froth. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 How big are your batches? 220g seems a lot of dextrose to be priming with. I'm not sure if water quality has much to do with it though, it's more about proteins and such in the beer itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worts and all Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 How big are your batches? 220g seems a lot of dextrose to be priming with. I'm not sure if water quality has much to do with it though' date=' it's more about proteins and such in the beer itself. [/quote'] 23 litres.210-220g gives me good carbonation and great heads.I agree about the proteins,but wonder why some people have so much trouble with getting a decent head on their beer. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 You must like it fizzy then . Anyway, yeah I dunno why some have issues with it when using the same recipes as others who have great results. Doesn't make much sense to me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I'm now drinking Kits'n'Bits batches with glass lacing' date=' head retention, and I'll tell you why. 1. Malt inclusions rather than dextrose or Enhancers (I'm anti Maltodextrin) 2. I use Liquid Malt Extract but DME should be ok. 3. [b']Always[/b] Addition of Steeping Grains (Caramalt, CaraHell, etc) at 300gms steeped 30mins@70c for a 23 litre batch. - one cannot underestimate this addition. 4. I have not yet proved lower attenuative yeast, eg Windsor, yet but working on it. I'm getting retention out of Nottingham and US-05 yeast including Kit yeast where necessary. I'm getting head retention in 3.5%ABV brews. 5. 4-6weeks in the bottle minimum. 6. PET bottles, or Glass gold capped. 1-3 were suggested by "Beerlust", Lusty. Cheers, I have never heard of PET bottles contributing to head retention. In so far as carbonation helps replace the initial head, any bottle with a good seal should work, shouldn't it? 4-6 weeks in the bottle would be okay for dark and malty brews, like stouts, porters, and dark ales, but you might not want to wait that long to drink a beer with late hop additions or dry hopping. The hops would be starting to fade at the four week point. One thing that is not on your list is wheat. The high protein content of wheat helps. Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPolo Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Worthog' date=' nice and concise. Let's hope this doesn't turn into a 7+ page thread about "flat beer" and every beer recipe conceived to rectify it![/quote'] I resemble that remark! ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 I have never heard of PET bottles contributing to head retention. In so far as carbonation helps replace the initial head' date=' any bottle with a good seal should work, shouldn't it? 4-6 weeks in the bottle would be okay for dark and malty brews, like stouts, porters, and dark ales, but you might not want to wait that long to drink a beer with late hop additions or dry hopping. The hops would be starting to fade at the four week point. One thing that is not on your list is wheat. The high protein content of wheat helps. Cheers, Christina. [/quote'] Christina, you're right about the PET's, it's just that I have been using them successfully lately. I'm also drinking 4-6 week beer because that is my current inventory cycle but I agree my late hop additions are fading, but it is not affecting head retention. ..And wheat? Definitely should be on the list. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Carapils?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worts and all Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 On 4/6/2018 at 6:11 AM, Otto Von Blotto said: You must like it fizzy then . Anyway, yeah I dunno why some have issues with it when using the same recipes as others who have great results. Doesn't make much sense to me either. Do I like it fizzy? Well,no. Is it sometimes fizzy? Well,yes. My first recipe called for 220g priming,and being happy with the result,blindly accepted that as the proper amount for a 23l brew. After your gentle critique of my methods I reviewed the situation. I bottled a milk stout with 7gl and at a sneak sample at 3 weeks it seems about right. Next week I’ll be bottling a lager. I will try that at 8gl I think. Thanks for your comments. Happy brewing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I used to use 8g/L for lagers too and it worked well so it should turn out nicely. Pale ales I used 7 and big dark beers I'd use about 5.5-6, but I was ageing those for at least 6 months in the bottles before drinking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 300g of specialty grains is a lot in my opinion. Wheat aids head as does rye and also oats. Protein. Hop oils contribute greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Ben 10 said: 300g of specialty grains is a lot in my opinion. I use 300g medium crystal in all my pale ales although they're 25 litre batches rather than 23. Other styles get more; my red ale contains nearly 600g with its combination of caraaroma, carapils and black patent, and dark beers about the same or more. I suppose the only difference is they get mashed with base malt rather than steeped by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Otto Von Blotto said: black patent I was more referring to the crystsl types. I rarely use any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Well there's only 70g of that in that recipe, the other 500g is the other two crystal types. It works in that beer but I don't do it on every beer. Lagers I don't use any specialty malts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graculus Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Ben 10 said: 300g of specialty grains is a lot in my opinion. Wheat aids head as does rye and also oats. Protein. Hop oils contribute greatly. I put on a kits and bit brew today. I'm using a Coopers recipe from the old IPA that is no longer available. But I'm using the Morgans Frontier IPA kit. That had 300 grams of Crystal Malt. In fact I'm drinking a six month old one right now, with as Warthog says.... glass lacing, head retention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 That's all good but for my taste I don't need the crystal and I still get a head on my beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Ben 10 said: 300g of specialty grains is a lot in my opinion. Wheat aids head as does rye and also oats. Protein. Hop oils contribute greatly. 300gms of specialty malts is nothing in certain types of beer. Barely a scratch on the right landscape in the right types of beer being brewed. Ben 10 lives in a fairly humid region of Australia where body & sweetness don't drink particularly well all year round, & I get that having been up there in that neck of the woods. XXXX Gold didn't become popular up there for no reason. Wheat malt aids head development, but will do little to carry over that head into decent retention without body building "protein" lower fermenting grain additions & hop oil derived influences (IMHO). * Take note of your own "Like" on the Belgian Candy Sugar brew in another thread (that I also liked) where I think you (unsure?) described the head as "Fluffy". The lack of head retention grains & hopping at the right times is why the head presents this way & why it fades more quickly. To be fair to the style of beer presented in that pic & thread, that is that way it is normally presented & meant to be. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Still not a fan of most crystals... don't really see the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 On 5/20/2018 at 5:11 PM, Ben 10 said: That's all good but for my taste I don't need the crystal and I still get a head on my beer. I think there is a difference with head retention between all-grain or partial mash and kit/extract beers. I can’t recall ever having head retention issues, even smash beers with nothing but base malt. With extract, some grains or some wheat malt help but just using malt (DME or LME) is usually sufficient. I think most head retention issues are with beers containing a lot of simple sugar or insufficient time in the bottles or dirty/greasy glasses. Also, I love a little Caramunich in my pale ales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I'm with Ben 10 on this one. To my tastes, most pale beers (in particular IPAs) don't need and are in fact better without crystal malts. The climate here in Canberra is very different to QLD and in general I still much prefer beers without crystal malt. You just need a nice base malt, and I can't recommend the Voyager malts out of Griffith enough. I can see what say 2% of a light crystal brings to an IPA, but I just enjoy it more without it. Let the hops shine! It's not going to be bitter hop water if you use a good base malt ... I made a 1.075 OG 1800s style English IPA with 100% English base malt and there was a ton of malt flavour and complexity. It would have been a mess if I had added crystal malt. And the only things that would have made the Stone Ruination clone that I brewed better would be a) removing the crystal malt and b) adding more hops. I've made several stouts without crystal malt (for a commercial example see Coopers BES), and love them. Getting the OG above 1.060 gives you plenty of body and malt flavour without the sweetness of light crystal malts, or the plum and raisin flavours of dark crystal malts which would just muddy the focus of the beer. Now I do have to concede that there are some styles where crystal malt makes the beer. For example if you are making an American Amber ale it is part of the flavour signature. But even then I have found that a light touch will produce a better beer. The 2 worst beers I have brewed that I can remember were a product of either a) adding crystal malt where it wasn't warranted or b) adding too much crystal malt for the particular beer. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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