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When to use more Yeast then supplied with my can


GregALE

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Hi I am new to the forum and whilst not new to brewing new to experimenting a bit more.

I have a question for fellow brewers who use Coopers cans and products -Do you use the 7gm packet of yeast supplied and if so has this had good results?

 

I am planning on doing a Dark Ale soon and increasing the sugars (combination of LDM and Brown Sugar) to 1.5kg - if there is more sugar mixed with the wort - should I use more yeast (I have 2 sachets of yeast one from a can of Dark Ale and one from can of Aust Pale Ale (both Coopers)?

 

What is the advantage of a higher weight of yeast?

 

Do any brewers use other brands or types of yeast and can you notice a difference?

 

My background - I have been on and off brewing for 20 years mainly for cost saving and just playing around - until now I have just used tins and sugar (sometimes dextrose and brew enhancer)

Recently I got third at our local show for the novice category of brew for a simple Coopers Dark Ale made from Brown Sugar. Tasting the beers that won and talking to other brewers I have been inspired to expand my brewing with malts, hops and yeast. I found the recipes on this site fantastic and today I bottled a Golden Ale made from Australian Pale Ale, Crystal Grain Malt and Cascade and Amarillo Hops - I cant wait to try - With winter coming on I am keen for some Dark Ales and Stouts - Hope you can help - Alemale

 

 

 

 

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Hi Alemale. Welcome to the forum! smile

 

In this link here you can find of list of which yeast come with which Coopers kit:

 

https://club.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/14826/

 

What you will see is that all of the Original Series kits, including the Dark Ale, plus the Canadian Blonde and the English Bitter kit from the International Series, come with Coopers ale yeast. This is a great yeast. It starts quickly (short lag time) and finishes quickly. It can handle more malt than most dry ale yeasts, and is more tolerant of higher temperatures than most other yeast. The amount provided (7gm) is designed to give optimum results with one kilo of fermentables.

 

All of the kits in the Thomas Cooper Series, plus the four other kits in the International series, come with third party yeasts which are unidentified. It is probably safe to assume that none of them are as vigorous as Coopers ale yeast, so if using more than 500gm DME, use more than 7gm of yeast.

 

For now, here are some rules of thumb for ales: a package of third party yeast (10-11.5gm) is okay for up to 1.5kg of LME or 1kg of DME. What I used to do is buy two kits at a time and pitched both kit yeasts in one recipe (7gm + 7gm = 14gm) and a third party yeast (10-11.5gm) in the second batch.

 

If you are using more than 1.5kg of LME, or more than 1kg of DME, consult a pitching rate calculator such as Mr Malty. Consider using either two kit yeasts (14gm), or a third party yeast plus a kit yeast (10/11.5gm + 7gm = 17gm/18.5gm). Just remember, you will do more harm under-pitching than by over-pitching.

 

It is okay to mix and match Coopers ale yeast with yeasts from other kits, with the exception of the wheat kit yeast, which should only be mixed with another wheat yeast. Some folks would say to only mix ale yeasts with ale yeast, but I quite like mixing Coopers ale and lager yeast in APAs; in fact, the APA and Cervesa kits come with an ale/lager yeast blend, and it is yummy. Since lager yeast tend to attenuate more, your brew will end up drier / with a lower FG.

 

If you would rather not mix and match yeasts, you could make a Shaken Not Stirred starter with a single 7gm pack of kit yeast the night before, and pitch it at high krausen. There is a thread about how to do it. I do this all the time and it is super easy, no special equipment required.

 

When using yeasts other than from the Original Series, meaning those in the Thomas Coopers and International Series, and any third party yeast you may buy at your LHBS, it is best to rehydrate. Personally I rehydrate all of my yeast, including Coopers ale yeast.

 

I would wait with trying to brew with 100% lager yeast until you are ready to learn to make starters, and have a brew fridge. Meanwhile the ale/lager blended yeast will give you a nice lager-like brew at ale temps.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

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Forgot to answer your question about is there a difference between yeast brands. There are two main things to watch out for: if they they ferment clean at their intended fermentation temperature, and attenuation rate. Most dry yeast are pretty clean, with the exception of those intended for English, Belgian, or wheat ales.

 

English yeasts (S-04, Windsor, London EBS) will often be a little ester-y and attenuate less (= higher FG and more malt character), but they are not phenolic. They are good for stouts and English Bitters. Nottingham is considered an English yeast but it is a little different: it is very clean fermented cool, very fruity if fermented warm, and it attenuates more than most other English yeast. Note that esters tend to fade quickly, after just a few weeks in the bottle, so what you are left with is the attenuation rate. Most English styles are about the malt and either use no, or just a small amount, of late hops.

 

American yeast (US-05, BRY-97, M44 etc) are very clean and quite attenuative. They are said to accentuate hops. Personally I don't bother buying any of them because they are all a little slow getting started, and slow to settle. I prefer to use Coopers ale yeast at 18C. Your FG might be a little higher than with one of the American yeasts, but adding 300gm of sugar to your brew can compensate for that pretty well. The ale/lager yeast blend (APA and Cervesa kits) is also a great substitute for American yeasts.

 

Belgian, Saison, and wheat yeast will usually be both ester-y and phenolic, and will often attenuate more, but a lot depends on fermentation temperature; they are not everyone's cup of tea.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

 

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Christina - firstly thankyou very much for taking the time to reply I really appreciate your advice.

It clarifies a few issues. The brew I just did I used a Morgans brand American Ale Yeast 15 grams. I have thrown out the packet so I am not sure whether it is one of the varieties you list below (US-05, BRY-97, M44 etc). So I have 2 packets of Coopers ale yeast

 

The brew I am planning I have decided to use 300gms Cracked Crystal Grain and then add 500gms of LME and 500gms of brown sugar to add some mollasses to a dark ale. I was planning on 1kg of brown sugar but don't want he mollasses to overpower the other flavours. I am thinking on sachet 7gms should be enough based on your advice - would you agree or will the 300gms of crystal grained will add more sugars.

 

Down the track I am keen on harvesting the yeasts from brews to use again. I was reading about this on the Coopers website.

 

On another question I was reading a thread about steeping grains posted on this forum about the difference between cold steeping in the fridge, by heating and room temperature. You provided good advice on this thread - I am thinking of cold steeping cracked crystal grain (MAngrove JAcks brand). Will warm steeping and then bringing to the boil bring out more sugars in grain then cold steeping. Is there any advantage to Cold Steeping.

 

Appreciate any advice you can give - thanks for your time.

 

Greg (Alemale)

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Christina I just read your advice below on another thread about Crystal Malt - It answers my question - I will cold steep and then heat to 72 c for 15 min to pasteurise (would it be folly to bring to boil??)

 

See below

 

cheers Alemale

 

I am still a bit unclear as to what the infusion pack contained. Was it just specialty grains?

 

Never boil the grains themselves. Harsh tannins will be extracted from the husks of grains above >77C or so….Your brew might make your mouth pucker, but it won't harm you.

 

Most new brewers start out with specialty grains, which do not require mashing. The most common are various shades of crystal malts, and roasted malts like chocolate malt, roasted barley, black patent. The temperature they are steeped at is not that critical. In a process akin to brewing tea, you can do a short hot steep (60C x 30 minutes) or a long cold steep (in the fridge for 18-24 hours). A lot of people, including myself, prefer the long cold steep for black patent, saying the results are smoother. If you are cold steeping black patent, there is no reason not to add your other specialty grains and cold steep them too. If your recipe does not include black patent, hot steeping is quicker. Before adding to your Coopers kit, the steeping tea should be heated to pasteurization temps, 72C, for 15 seconds.

 

Some specialty grains have quite a lot of starch left in them and need to be “mashed” with some base malt, which is kind of like making porridge. Examples of specialty grains that need mashing are brown malt, amber, Biscuit, Victory, Melanoidin, darker coloured Munich, and many others. Base malts (typically 2-row pale malt) have enzymes that can break up those starches into smaller bits that the yeast can eat–this is called “converting” the starch–but these enzymes only work at certain temperatures. So unlike with the steeping process, in the mashing process time and temperature are critical. The temperature should be 65-68C, and the time is usually 60 minutes, although it can be anywhere from 45-90 minutes. Mashing some specialty grains with a roughly equal amount of 2-row (or other high enzyme base malt) is called partial mashing. After mashing the wort needs to be rinsed from the grains. The resulting wort must then be boiled for 60 minutes, and then cooled, before adding to your Coopers kit. Partial mashing is probably something to save for later in your brewing career.

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Christina - firstly thankyou very much for taking the time to reply I really appreciate your advice.

It clarifies a few issues. The brew I just did I used a Morgans brand American Ale Yeast 15 grams. I have thrown out the packet so I am not sure whether it is one of the varieties you list below (US-05' date=' BRY-97, M44 etc). So I have 2 packets of Coopers ale yeast

 

The brew I am planning I have decided to use 300gms Cracked Crystal Grain and then add 500gms of LME and 500gms of brown sugar to add some mollasses to a dark ale. I was planning on 1kg of brown sugar but don't want he mollasses to overpower the other flavours. I am thinking on sachet 7gms should be enough based on your advice - would you agree or will the 300gms of crystal grained will add more sugars.

 

Down the track I am keen on harvesting the yeasts from brews to use again. I was reading about this on the Coopers website.

 

On another question I was reading a thread about steeping grains posted on this forum about the difference between cold steeping in the fridge, by heating and room temperature. You provided good advice on this thread - I am thinking of cold steeping cracked crystal grain (MAngrove JAcks brand). Will warm steeping and then bringing to the boil bring out more sugars in grain then cold steeping. Is there any advantage to Cold Steeping.

 

Appreciate any advice you can give - thanks for your time.

 

Greg (Alemale)[/quote']

 

I suspect the wrapper of Morgans yeast would not identify what it is.

 

I think you are right to be wary of the molasses in brown sugar. Molasses contains iron. Too much iron in your brew will make it taste like rust. This is why I stay away from using actual molasses in my brews. When I have tried molasses in the past, rust was all I could taste.

 

Regarding sugar, whether brown or otherwise, it is a good idea to take a page from the English brewers and make sure that sugar does not exceed 10% of your ingredients, to avoid cider-y flavour in your beer. I just punched your recipe into the Brewer's Friend calculator for you:

 

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/

 

The percentage of sugar is almost 19%. To keep things simple I would increase the DME to 1kg and reduce the brown sugar to 300gm, and keep the crystal malts the same. That should turn into a tasty drop. BTW, when entering your recipe into a calculator you should multiply the weight of all liquid extract, including the kit itself, by 0.8, to get its DME equivalent, since the 20% water in the liquid extract is not fermentable. The kit is 1.7kg x 0.8 = 1.36kg DME.

 

If your only specialty grain is crystal, I would stick to the traditional method of hot steeping for 30 minutes. I would only cold steep if I was also using black patent.

 

If you stick to your original recipe, 7gm of yeast should be enough. If you make the changes I suggested, I would go with two packages (14gm)....I often save slurry from the bottom of my bucket for the next brew. I use the sloppy slurry method, which couldn't be easier. I usually only do this once, which saves me from having to buy yeast, but sometimes I do it twice in a row. The risk of infection goes up with each generation, so I have not dared venture beyond the third generation.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

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....I often save slurry from the bottom of my bucket for the next brew. I use the sloppy slurry method' date=' which couldn't be easier. I usually only do this once, which saves me from having to buy yeast, but sometimes I do it twice in a row. The risk of infection goes up with each generation, so I have not dared venture beyond the third generation.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.[/quote']

 

 

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....I often save slurry from the bottom of my bucket for the next brew. I use the sloppy slurry method' date=' which couldn't be easier. I usually only do this once, which saves me from having to buy yeast, but sometimes I do it twice in a row. The risk of infection goes up with each generation, so I have not dared venture beyond the third generation.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.[/quote']

 

 

Christina

 

I did some research on the sloppy slurry method - can you check this is correct

Sanatise a jar, once the beer is poured is for bottling there should be a yeast cake left on the bottom of the fermenting vessel. swirl this around with the remaining liquid. - pour out a quater into the jar - refrigerate and then pitch to next brew in ten days

 

Greg

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....I often save slurry from the bottom of my bucket for the next brew. I use the sloppy slurry method' date=' which couldn't be easier. I usually only do this once, which saves me from having to buy yeast, but sometimes I do it twice in a row. The risk of infection goes up with each generation, so I have not dared venture beyond the third generation.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.[/quote']

 

 

Christina

 

I did some research on the sloppy slurry method - can you check this is correct

Sanatise a jar, once the beer is poured is for bottling there should be a yeast cake left on the bottom of the fermenting vessel. swirl this around with the remaining liquid. - pour out a quater into the jar - refrigerate and then pitch to next brew in ten days

 

Greg

 

Yes, that is pretty much it. Only thing is you might want to leave a little more beer behind in the FV than you normally would, maybe a couple of cm, to make it it easier to swirl around. On your next brew day shake up the slurry to get it all mixed up again. Keep careful notes on how long your lag times are. Ideally you want it to be 12 hours. A little shorter than 12 hours is okay, but if it is only six hours you are over-pitching, so use less next time. If it is longer than 18 hours you have under-pitched, so use more next time. I am so pleased you are going to give it a try.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

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....I often save slurry from the bottom of my bucket for the next brew. I use the sloppy slurry method' date=' which couldn't be easier. I usually only do this once, which saves me from having to buy yeast, but sometimes I do it twice in a row. The risk of infection goes up with each generation, so I have not dared venture beyond the third generation.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.[/quote']

 

 

Christina

 

I did some research on the sloppy slurry method - can you check this is correct

Sanatise a jar, once the beer is poured is for bottling there should be a yeast cake left on the bottom of the fermenting vessel. swirl this around with the remaining liquid. - pour out a quater into the jar - refrigerate and then pitch to next brew in ten days

 

Greg

 

Yes, that is pretty much it. Only thing is you might want to leave a little more beer behind in the FV than you normally would, maybe a couple of cm, to make it it easier to swirl around. On your next brew day shake up the jar of slurry to get it all mixed up again. Keep careful notes on how long your lag times are. Ideally you want it to be 12 hours. A little shorter than 12 hours is okay, but if it is only six hours you are over-pitching, so use less next time. If it is longer than 18 hours you have under-pitched, so use more next time. I am so pleased you are going to give it a try.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

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I must be under pitching my lagers by shitloads then, they never get going before about 30 hours and I've had some take up to 50 hours before showing any visible signs of fermentation lol

 

I still have to do some stain testing on some fermenter slurry to see how quickly it dies off. Might try it with an ale strain though since that's what most of you are using.

 

 

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I must be under pitching my lagers by shitloads then' date=' they never get going before about 30 hours and I've had some take up to 50 hours before showing any visible signs of fermentation [img']lol[/img]

 

I still have to do some stain testing on some fermenter slurry to see how quickly it dies off. Might try it with an ale strain though since that's what most of you are using.

 

 

Yes, sorry, I am speaking of ales, and the ale/lager yeast blend that comes with the APA kit.

 

For Alemale's sake, what temperature are you pitching your lager starters at Kelsey?

 

Yes, it would be great to see some viability testing for fermenter slurry, for ale yeast, to see how quickly it dies off. Hope you find the time! wink Alemale, Kelsey has a microscope and last year he did viability testing on lager yeast, collected from a starter, wasn't it? There is a thread about it....

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

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I must be under pitching my lagers by shitloads then' date='...[/quote']

lollol

 

Not likely 'yeast daddy'. tongue

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

I know, just having a laugh tonguebiggrin

 

Christina, I pitch my lagers at whatever the temp the cube of wort is sitting at when it goes into the fermenter. At this time of year it's usually in the mid 20s, but then it goes straight into the brew fridge to be cooled to my preferred ferment temp of 10C. It usually takes around 12 hours to drop to this temp. In winter they're pitched lower because the ambient is obviously lower. I would prefer to be able to chill the cube closer to the fermentation temp but the brew fridge is usually taken up with the 5L flask of yeast so there's no room. I may be able to drop the shelf down a little to hold the flask under the freezer compartment while still having enough room underneath for the cube though, will investigate next lager batch.

 

Yes that sample was taken from a grown starter. In fact it's still sitting in the fridge here, maybe I should do another stain test on it now and see how far it's dropped off. It would be interesting to see if my estimate of around 50% viability after 5 months when I built the starter for this current batch was accurate or not. The thread is called "yeast viability over time" or something.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

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Hi Alemale. Welcome to the forum! smile

 

In this link here you can find of list of which yeast come with which Coopers kit:

 

https://club.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/14826/

 

What you will see is that all of the Original Series kits' date=' including the Dark Ale, plus the Canadian Blonde and the English Bitter kit from the International Series, come with Coopers ale yeast. This is a great yeast. It starts quickly (short lag time) and finishes quickly. It can handle more malt than most dry ale yeasts, and is more tolerant of higher temperatures than most other yeast. The amount provided (7gm) is designed to give optimum results with one kilo of fermentables.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.[/quote']

 

So let me get this right

 

The Coopers Lager in the Original Series comes with an Ale Yeast so is not technically a Lager

 

BTW this is Greg - Formerly known as Alemale - but for some unknown reason I could not log back into this forum and the new password function sent to a 404 page could not be found category

 

So I have set up a new account but am still appreciating all the advice

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....I often save slurry from the bottom of my bucket for the next brew. I use the sloppy slurry method' date=' which couldn't be easier. I usually only do this once, which saves me from having to buy yeast, but sometimes I do it twice in a row. The risk of infection goes up with each generation, so I have not dared venture beyond the third generation.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.[/quote']

 

 

Christina

 

I did some research on the sloppy slurry method - can you check this is correct

Sanatise a jar, once the beer is poured is for bottling there should be a yeast cake left on the bottom of the fermenting vessel. swirl this around with the remaining liquid. - pour out a quater into the jar - refrigerate and then pitch to next brew in ten days

 

Greg

 

Yes, that is pretty much it. Only thing is you might want to leave a little more beer behind in the FV than you normally would, maybe a couple of cm, to make it it easier to swirl around. On your next brew day shake up the jar of slurry to get it all mixed up again. Keep careful notes on how long your lag times are. Ideally you want it to be 12 hours. A little shorter than 12 hours is okay, but if it is only six hours you are over-pitching, so use less next time. If it is longer than 18 hours you have under-pitched, so use more next time. I am so pleased you are going to give it a try.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

Christina I remember reading on another thread about the Sloppy Slurry Method that you think the right amount is about 100ml but when you get to the stage of pouring out your yeast cake on bottling day - you cant help yourself and end up with about a cup (250ml)

 

I bottled a batch last weekend and have about 200ml in a jar in the fridge ready for brew day (today or tomorrow). I am going to do an American Style Dark Ale (Alemale did a previous thread about it) - In my recipe I am going to use the Coopers Dark Ale Kit with 300gms Crystal - steeped, 1kg of DME, 300gm of Brown Sugar -

 

Can anyone provide advice on whether repitching this yeast should be enough or would you err on the side of caution and add 7gms of Kit Yeast

 

Greg-Ale (formerly known as Alemale)

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Christina - firstly thankyou very much for taking the time to reply I really appreciate your advice.

 

 

. To keep things simple I would increase the DME to 1kg and reduce the brown sugar to 300gm' date=' and keep the crystal malts the same. That should turn into a tasty drop. BTW, when entering your recipe into a calculator you should multiply the weight of all liquid extract, including the kit itself, by 0.8, to get its DME equivalent, since the 20% water in the liquid extract is not fermentable. The kit is 1.7kg x 0.8 = 1.36kg DME.

 

If your only specialty grain is crystal, I would stick to the traditional method of hot steeping for 30 minutes. I would only cold steep if I was also using black patent.

 

If you stick to your original recipe, 7gm of yeast should be enough. If you make the changes I suggested, I would go with two packages (14gm)....I often save slurry from the bottom of my bucket for the next brew. I use the sloppy slurry method, which couldn't be easier. I usually only do this once, which saves me from having to buy yeast, but sometimes I do it twice in a row. The risk of infection goes up with each generation, so I have not dared venture beyond the third generation.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.[/quote']

 

See my question in the post above - Using this recipe but with 200mls of yeast saved from last batch - I am hoping this should be enough as I want to test the effectiveness of the Sloppy Slurry Method of re-using yeast without the added variable of the dry kit yeast - but I dont want to ruin the beer by under pitching

 

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Sorry I missed your post Greg. Yes, 200mL will be plenty of yeast. No need for the kit yeast. Good luck. Remember to keep track of how much you pitched and your lag times, and how old it was when you pitched it. That will help you hone your process.

 

Good luck.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

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Hi Alemale. Welcome to the forum! smile

 

In this link here you can find of list of which yeast come with which Coopers kit:

 

https://club.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/14826/

 

What you will see is that all of the Original Series kits' date=' including the Dark Ale, plus the Canadian Blonde and the English Bitter kit from the International Series, come with Coopers ale yeast. This is a great yeast. It starts quickly (short lag time) and finishes quickly. It can handle more malt than most dry ale yeasts, and is more tolerant of higher temperatures than most other yeast. The amount provided (7gm) is designed to give optimum results with one kilo of fermentables.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.[/quote']

 

So let me get this right

 

The Coopers Lager in the Original Series comes with an Ale Yeast so is not technically a Lager

 

BTW this is Greg - Formerly known as Alemale - but for some unknown reason I could not log back into this forum and the new password function sent to a 404 page could not be found category

 

So I have set up a new account but am still appreciating all the advice

 

Opinions on whether the original series Lager is actually Lager as it uses a yeast ale

 

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It is not lager yeast. The name of the kit is a frequent source of confusion. Coopers is using the term "lager" loosely to indicate that when made as directed (with a box of BE1) you end up with something that resembles a mega-swill lager. The grist is very simple (all base malt), and the bittering is on the low side.

 

Like all of the Original Series kits, the OS Lager comes with Coopers ale yeast. Coopers provides a list of which yeasts come with which kits here:

 

https://club.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/14826/

 

But to get back to collecting slurry, as a general rule it best to use slurry from lighter coloured brews that aren't too bitter, and are not dry hopped. You will probably be fine this time around, with your Dark Ale slurry, but it is a good idea to try to plan ahead a bit. When I want to make a dark brew, which are often also more bitter, I buy a light kit too. I use both kit yeasts to ferment the lighter kit and use slurry from that to ferment the darker kit.

 

If you want to dry hop your first, lighter kit, rack to secondary around day 8 and dry hop in there, saving slurry from the bottom of your primary. If you don't want to bother with racking to secondary an alternative is to use your dry hopping charge to make a hop tea on bottling day instead, which you strain and add just before bottling. Steep the hops at about 75C for 20 minutes.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

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G'day Greg,

 

Glad your yeast collecting adventures are going well. I always harvest post-ferment (after bottling) using the method Christina mentions, ie leaving a cm or two of extra beer on top of the yeast cake, swirling this up until it is at an even consistency, then filling a 1 litre mason jar and refrigerating. This will usually settle down to ~300 - 400ml of thick slurry after a couple of days. Before pitching I pour off most of the beer and swirl the slurry up again.

 

How much of this slurry I pitch depends on a few things - the style (lagers get more than ales), the gravity (higher gravity beers get more) and length of time before repitching (longer time means lower viability so more is needed). Fermenter volume used to be another variable, but I only do 11 litre batches now in the Craft fermenter (ditched my DIY fermenter a while back).

 

I do not use pitching rate calculators since Yeast Cultures Are Like Nuclear Weapons, in that as long as your sanitation is good, near enough is good enough since yeast multiply so quickly. My rules are: if it's a big beer, a lager or the slurry has been in the fridge for more than a few weeks, I'll pitch as much of it as I can (~300 - 400ml). Otherwise I'll pitch about half of it (~150 - 200ml). I have been getting great results so far.

 

I am also not very fussy with the beers I repitch from (in terms of light colour, low bitterness, low gravity etc). For example I repitched yeast from a 9% ABV, 85 IBU Imperial Stout into an Imperial Amber Ale with excellent results (well it was a Munich Lager strain actually, but that's neither here nor there). Usually the colour pickup from your yeast slurry is pretty minimal since you have only a little bit of beer in the thick slurry.

 

I do have one rule - don't repitch from a batch where the beer didn't ferment well (a bit slower than expected or with a flavour that isn't quite right).

 

Cheers,

 

John

 

 

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I'd agree you don't need to be absolutely precise with pitching rates, but I still wouldn't recommend underpitching by half the recommended rate. It just leads to inconsistency. It's not just about the time it takes to replicate, it's also about how many replications it goes through because it does affect the flavor. Pitch too little and you end up with off flavors, pitch too much and the beer ends up a bit blander than it should be. There have also been numerous instances where beers have been underpitched and as a result the yeast have either given up before the job's done, got it done but been sluggish, the beer tasted like arse or it got infected. It's not worth skimping on because one article reckons it's only gonna take an extra 90 minutes to replicate to the required numbers to ferment the batch. By that logic you could pitch one cell and it would eventually replicate to the required numbers. It also doesn't explain why lag times are often significantly increased by under pitching too far, a lot more than 90 minutes.

 

At the end of the day, a standard ale in the 1.040s OG range should be fully fermented out in less than 7 days, probably about 5 days. If it's taking longer then something is wrong with the yeast side of things. It could be underpitched, or the wort may be lacking in nutrients or oxygen. You can understand a high gravity ale taking a bit longer than that, but not a standard one.

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....I often save slurry from the bottom of my bucket for the next brew. I use the sloppy slurry method' date=' which couldn't be easier. I usually only do this once, which saves me from having to buy yeast, but sometimes I do it twice in a row. The risk of infection goes up with each generation, so I have not dared venture beyond the third generation.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.[/quote']

 

 

Christina

 

I did some research on the sloppy slurry method - can you check this is correct

Sanatise a jar, once the beer is poured is for bottling there should be a yeast cake left on the bottom of the fermenting vessel. swirl this around with the remaining liquid. - pour out a quater into the jar - refrigerate and then pitch to next brew in ten days

 

Greg

 

Yes, that is pretty much it. Only thing is you might want to leave a little more beer behind in the FV than you normally would, maybe a couple of cm, to make it it easier to swirl around. On your next brew day shake up the jar of slurry to get it all mixed up again. Keep careful notes on how long your lag times are. Ideally you want it to be 12 hours. A little shorter than 12 hours is okay, but if it is only six hours you are over-pitching, so use less next time. If it is longer than 18 hours you have under-pitched, so use more next time. I am so pleased you are going to give it a try.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

Ok for those who are interested - I put down a brew on Saturday and pitched the yeast that I had collected from the previous batch using the sloppy slurry method. The jar had a total of 200ml in it, and the yeast had settled on the bottom of the jar leaving clear beer on top. This yeast was 7 days in the jar in the fridge before re-pitching. I took the jar out of the fridge approx 2 hours before re-pitching - shook the jar to mix and poured direct into the FV after stirring the wort and fermentables. The yeast was pitched at approx 2pm. At 9pm some 7 hours after pitching the yeast I opened the FV and there was no sign of activity. The next morning approx some 16 hours after pitching there was a thick foam krausen on the surface of the brew. So it looks like fermentation was a success. However now some 30 hours after pitching the krausen is still evident but there is no activity in the air lock - I have noticed from other ferments though that the airlock does not start bubbling until about 2 days later even though krausen forms earlier.

 

The one thing that I am doing different from the previous brew is trying to control the temperature. The last brew I left the FV in the shed and temp ranged from 24 - 20 for the duration of fermentation. This time I am trying to keep the temperature at 18C. (This seems to be the preferred temp for most brewers on this forum for Ales even though coopers say higher temps). At the moment day time ambient temp where I live are between 24 - 27 degrees (probably 24 in the shed) and evenings are getting down to 15 (but in the shed a bit warmer). I am putting the FV in a fridge during the day and keeping it to 18 - 16 and then putting out on the bench in the shed at night. I am hoping that the re-pitched yeast can ferment at these lower temps.

 

If I dont see any action in the airlock of air escaping from the FV in the next 24 hours - should I add a packet of Coopers yeast just to be sure

 

Greg

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What kind of fermenter do you have? You should not open the FV to peak as this could introduce infection.

 

I am not sure why you are taking the FV in and out of the fridge. Just leave it in the fridge with the temp probe attached to the side of the FV, under some foam insulation. I usually pitch my yeast 20-21C, keep it there until I see signs of fermentation start, usually around bedtime of pitching day, and then dial down to 18C.

 

I suspect that your fermentation is winding down, almost done. Your krausen will probably fall soon. I pitched my last brew on Mar 17, and the krausen fell on Mar 21. That is quite common with the Coopers ale yeast and the ale/lager yeast blend. Coopers themselves say to expect the krausen to fall anytime between day 3 and 5.

 

A lot of brewers, including myself, like to increase the temp by 2C for a couple of days as fermentation dies down (often around day three or four). This temp increase is not absolutely necessary, if you prefer to keep it stable. But what you don't want is for it to drop down at this stage, especially not down to 15C, which might risk the yeast going dormant.

 

I suggest taking a gravity reading on day 6, and then again on day 8 or 9. I have a hunch everything is normal.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

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