Worthog Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, The Captain1525230099 said: This’ll probably start a fight here but I believe steeping imparts more flavour due to lower temperatures and steam not evaporating the oils that are extracted by heat. If that makes sense. Captain +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I’ve recently started cube hopping at 85 degrees. Which will extract bitterness and flavour at that temp. If you steep below 82? I think, it won’t extract bitterness just oils. Hope that helps Captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 On 5/24/2018 at 11:31 PM, Beerlust said: The same hops you used on this latest brew for dry hopping, switch & steep in approx. 1-2 litres of 70-80°C water for 20mins (a hop tea) & then strain directly into your fermenter with the rest of your ingredients prior to pitching your yeast. If you want hop flavour when using a kit base, this is how you'll get it without increasing the bitterness of the beer. Lusty, how does hop tea go in regards to being sanitary? Is it good practice to boil the water first to make sure it's clean and sanitised, then letting it sit n cool to 80 degrees before chucking the hops it? Given my bad run, I'd be concerned that just heating the water to 70-80 degrees and adding hops to make a tea might still allow any bugs to still hang around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 If you're concerned then boil it first. I think boiling it first is pretty standard practice anyway really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Cheers Kelsey, I assumed the same just wanted to clarify. Keen to get another brew happening to confirm if I've sorted my issues out. I'm filthy I only bottled one without the hops this time and it was a good'n and I've still got 30 odd long necks of this other shit to get through yet. Don't have enough bottles and space to mix up another batch yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Sounds like a good idea to boil it first Karlos and sanitise any strainer you filter through. I usually take the better safe than sorry approach, boil hop bags, clean and sanitise my stainless hop tube thoroughly. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Hi Karlos_1984. 2 hours ago, karlos_1984 said: Lusty, how does hop tea go in regards to being sanitary? Is it good practice to boil the water first to make sure it's clean and sanitised, then letting it sit n cool to 80 degrees before chucking the hops it? Given my bad run, I'd be concerned that just heating the water to 70-80 degrees and adding hops to make a tea might still allow any bugs to still hang around? The tap water I use is chlorinated to kill bacteria, so I'm not concerned with having to boil it first. If I was using water from a bore, or a well, or rainwater, I probably would as there are obvious reason(s) to. At 70-80°C you are well into a HTST (High Temp/Short Time) pasteurisation zone that will kill pathogenic bacteria in around 15 seconds of contact time, so given you're steeping for 20-30mins, I feel pretty safe in the knowledge anything present that might have been harmful, is dead. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Thanks lusty. All good points. I rkn I'll just boil it first to be on the safe side. Same as boiling water for rehydrating yeast I suppose. My water is filtered through a puratap. I don't pre-boil the water I use to top up my wort. I usually just sanitise a heap of old soda water bottles and fill them from the tap and fridge them prior to brew day. I've seen plenty of others just top up straight from their taps so I don't believe this is one of my issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Unless you've got really bad water or it's untreated, it's highly unlikely that it would cause any problems with infection in batches. As Lusty rightly pointed out, tap water is chlorinated to kill bugs. Hops themselves are also anti bacterial. It's up to you whether you boil it or not. I don't make hop teas, but I do dry hop in stainless tea strainers. With these I usually just rinse them off after use, then boil them before the next use rather than use starsan or whatever. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worthog Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, Beerlust said: Hi Karlos_1984. The tap water I use is chlorinated to kill bacteria, so I'm not concerned with having to boil it first. If I was using water from a bore, or a well, or rainwater, I probably would as there are obvious reason(s) to..... Cheers, Lusty. 20 minutes ago, karlos_1984 said: Thanks lusty. All good points. I rkn I'll just boil it first to be on the safe side. Same as boiling water for rehydrating yeast I suppose. My water is filtered through a puratap. I don't pre-boil the water I use to top up my wort. I usually just sanitise a heap of old soda water bottles and fill them from the tap and fridge them prior to brew day. I've seen plenty of others just top up straight from their taps so I don't believe this is one of my issues 18 of the usual 23 litres of my wort has always been charcoal filtered rainwater. Never had an infection in 49 batches. Of course, all of the other additions, eg malt steep and hop teas are always pre-boiled tap water. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 On 5/24/2018 at 11:31 PM, Beerlust said: Steep in approx. 1-2 litres of 70-80°C water for 20mins (a hop tea) & then strain directly into your fermenter with the rest of your ingredients prior to pitching your yeast. If you want hop flavour when using a kit base, this is how you'll get it without increasing the bitterness of the beer. Just on the hop tea again. Is the correct method to just boil the water and let it steep off the heat at 70-80 degrees? Or do you keep the water boiling after adding the hops? I was of the belief it was a steep off the heat, however nearly all the instructional videos on YouTube about hop teas show people continually boiling it the whole time. Which method is more correct and will impart the most flavour and aroma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Hop tea is off the heat i.e. you don’t boil the hops. It is supposed to be like a flameout addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 If it's boiling it becomes a hop boil not a hop tea. The way Lusty described it is the right method for a hop tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 Cheers thanks fellas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 So I tasted my latest batch last night after only 2 weeks in the bottle. I'm still not 100% sure if I've solved this problem or if it's just because the beer is too young. This batch was a real ale double strength beer because I only mixed it to 12 ltrs and added 500g LDM and did a hop tea of 25g each of Citra and Centennial, with the same as a dry hop. Cold crashed for a week then transferred to a secondary with my grain bag boiled/star sanned in there to catch all the leftover hop matter. Was fermented with rehrdrated kit yeast. At first, it has a slight difference in taste as my last failure. The mouth feel is more heavy. I don't know if I'm tasting the hips, but they aren't standing out like I expected from the hop tea and first time commando dry hop. There's a familiar taste too it like all my brews. All beers I've made so far have been based on different kits as a base with different hops, so I'm still at a loss as to why I'm getting such familiar flavour to all of them. I need someone local to taste one of these and try and help identify the issue I rkn. FIIK what else to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Karlos sorry about the brews. I am going to toss my 2cents worth in here. I would make another batch but switch kits to something cleaner so that the hops and other flavours shine, the cerveza kit is my favorite OR maybe try brewing a cider and then come back to the ales. I would also nuke all my equipment, making sure to rinse thoroughly with hot water afterwards. Clean it, wash it, rinse it and sanitize it. I would be switching yeast also, if you can't then the cerveza kit is an ale/lager mix which I believe is different from the real ale which is ale only. Yeast can play a part in flavours. I would also never do a hop tea with plain water again. For me, it brings astringency and just doesn't represent what the hops should be like. Adding 100g of malt per liter of water for a short boil or steep brings better flavours and aromas across without the offness I get when just using water. If you have a big enough pot I would do a 5l or 3l steep, so bring the wort up to a boil and then turn off the heat and remove the pot from the heat and toss in 50 to 75g of some nice hops that you might like, hopefully you have some more citra and centennial and let that steep for 15 to 20 minutes. You have done this before from the previous posts, so basically 1kg of light dry malt and 250g of carapils steeped for 30 minutes and your hops. I would be trying to use 100g to 150g of hops on this batch, strictly because it will get you the hop flavours and aromas you seem to be after, along with beers that dont taste the same. Dry hop 75g or more. Finally, I would bulk prime the batch when bottling to ensure I get 2.5 as my carbonation pressure, maybe even 2.3. Sometimes the carbonation can scrub flavors. You seem to be fermenting at the right temps are you pitching the yeast below 24c? Besides those suggestions that is all I got. If cleaning everything, switching kits and yeast, and boiling/steeping in wort doesn't change the flavours then I dont know what will. Brewing a cider sounds weird but getting the flavours out of the fermenting could help. Good luck mate and keep trying, Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Cheers Norris. I've actually got a Cooper's APA in my fridge at the moment at the dry hop stage. With this one though, I did a 5 ltr boil with 500g LDM and a hop boil of 15g centennial @ 20 mins, 15g Citra @ 10 mins and 10g of both @ 5 mins then let them steep after a whirlpool for 20 mins as the pot cooled in an ice bath in the sink. I chucked that in and added another kilo of LDM and topped to 21 ltrs. Pitched 2 X kit yeasts at 19 degrees and held it at 18 degrees the whole and it's on sat 3 of dry hop of 25g of both Citra and Centennial as we speak. I'm.gonna cold crash again then transfer to secondary with the boiled grain bag so I don't get floaties. I haven't bull primed before have only used carb drops. If this batch doesn't hit the spot I dunno what will. Might try the cervesa like u said or just do an extract n hop boil. As soon as both my FB are emptied on bottling day I rinse them thoroughly with hit AF water to get all the trub n Krausen off, then swish around some hot water and napisan to get it properly clean, let it dry and put away. Before using again I rinse in hot water and star san afterwards. The 25ltr water container I've been using as primary dv gets soaked in napisan n water for a few days before a rinse, dry and put away. I don't think I could be any more meticulous with my cleaning...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 What exactly is the flavour that keeps appearing in every batch? You're doing all the right things to get decent beer. Is it just kit twang? Or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I was just about to say that! I do not understand, except the 20min boil would lose a lot of the aroma and maybe some flavour sticks around. Unless I am unimpressed with the kit bitterness I never do a boil just steeps. That maximizes most of the flavour and aroma. Besides that....dude I am flummoxed(word of the day). I wish I could try some to see what exactly is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 flummoxed effing great word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said: What exactly is the flavour that keeps appearing in every batch? You're doing all the right things to get decent beer. Is it just kit twang? Or something else? It must be. And a severe lack of hops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, The Captain1525230099 said: flummoxed effing great word! I also like flabbergasted. Karlos I have no idea. You're definitely adding enough hops for them to be noticed. I suppose you could try adding more or use a more bland kit and tart it up. To be honest, I never noticed much impact from dry hopping at least, when I did it with kit beers. I don't know why either. I did a few extract beers thst turned out better with the hopping but still somewhat subdued. My first AG beer had a Cascade dry hop of about the same amount I put into the kits and its aroma and hop flavour jumped out. That's one reason I never brewed another kit or extract beer, except one English bitter kit when I had to get a brew on and didn't have time to do an AG batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#granted+brew Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 6 hours ago, karlos_1984 said: So I tasted my latest batch last night after only 2 weeks in the bottle. I'm still not 100% sure if I've solved this problem or if it's just because the beer is too young. Hi Karlos, Everyone else has offered great advise to your problem and I have read this thread numerous times, every time it comes back up and thought about my two cents worth! So here goes... Try to get some age on your bottles man. Two weeks/a month, just doesn't cut it for most kits. Some guys don't touch 'em for months, I wish I could keep mine that long.... I'm struggling to get some age on my brews but every batch I bottle I'm brewing again the next day. I'm gaining a week extra ageing every batch I put down. But I'm not a big drinker, I drink most days but only one or two longnecks. But if my current swilling batch isn't drinking well enough yet, I will buy some megaswill as not to waste my precious homebrew... Give it some time mate, I reckon it will come good, just don't leave it too long or your hop flavours will fade out. Also, try the 'Lusty' style dry hop double squeeze , I used it and can not believe how hoppy this beer is I'm drinking right now with just (20g) cascade. It's 32 days in the bottle and not quite ready yet still. But bloody beautiful. Good luck anyway mate, hope you can get a brew your happy with soon. Cheers, Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlos_1984 Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Thanks Lee. It's my last hope that leaving it a bit longer might sort this out. It's hard to leave it though as I'm sure you know. I can't really do the lusty method with squeazing the hop sock, as I'm fermenting in a 25 ltr water drum that fits snugly in my 60 ltr Waeco fridge. I shoved the hop sock thru the small lid/hole on first attempt and it was near impossible to prise it out after the hops had absorbed liquid and swelled up. On that occasion it would have done the same thing anyway as I had to sqeaze and prise the living piss out of it the get it out. That's why I've been dry hopping commando since then. As I've got a second APA still in the fermenter now I'm trying to build up stocks to allow for aging. I might have to go to uncle Dan's in the mean time after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackgym Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 15 hours ago, Norris! said: I never do a boil just steeps. That maximizes most of the flavour and aroma. Side tracking from the thread a bit. I'm not doubting your word here, Norris, but does anyone else have an opinion on just steeping as against boiling for flavour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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