Brews all taste the same

[karlos_1984]

Hey guys,

 

I've put down 3 brews so far, with a 4th ( a stout) currently bubbling away in my FV.

The problem I'm having is that all 3 previous brews have been completely different recipes, but the end results all taste relatively the same. I seem to always get the same extract twang and I can't really taste the hops at all, as I'd hoped and expected. I've read the other thread on here about the bandaid taste and even though I'm thorough with my cleaning/sanitisation, I'm starting to worry that all my brews may have been infected and giving off the same flavours.

Here's what I've brewed so far:

 

1st: TC IPA can, 23 ltrs, 1.5 kg LDM, kit yeast, dry hopped with 60g Galaxy.

 

2nd: Coopers Lager can, 21 ltrs, 1kg LDM, 250g Caramalt steep, 1kg BE1, 20 min boil and Flameout cascade/galaxy, rehydrated US-05 yeast, dry hop galaxy/cascade

 

3rd: Coopers APA can, 21 ltrs, 1kg BE2, 500g LDM, 250g Caramalt steep, 15 min / 5 min boil of Centennial/Citra/amarillo, rehydrated US-05 yeast, dry hop cascade/citra/amarillo.

 

All brews were in the bottle for at least 2 weeks prior to drinking. I don't have a fermenting fridge but have tried to maintain temps in the FV to between 20-23 degrees using a towel doused in cold water, wrapped around the FV. Once bottled, the beer was kept in a closed esky and kept about 20 degrees and out of light. Some of the beer has been drank after about 3-4 weeks (last few bottles of each batch) and flavour hasn't really improved.

 

My 3rd brew has the most hops I've used so far. I cracked the first bottle of this batch last night and to say I was disappointed would be an understatement. I can't smell or taste the hops at all and it tastes the same as the first 2 (twang).

 

Am I jumping the gun a bit given that all batches have only been in the bottle for 2 weeks prior to drinking? I just find it really odd that all 3 recipes have used different bases and hops yet there's no real difference between them, almost seems like the money/effort put into it has been wasted because there's been no difference in taste. Does it sound like what I'm tasting is the dreaded bandaid that has already been spoken about elsewhere in the forum?

 

As I've said, all my equipment is cleaned immediately after use, and I re-rinse it hot water and sanitise everything before brewing a batch. My bottles get rinsed after they're emptied, and stored once dry. I soak in napi-san the day prior to bottling, re-rinse several times and sanitise the bottles before filling them on bottling day.

 

Any advice? I'm a bit disappointed in the outcome so far, even though they have been drinkable, but just nowhere near what I've expected. Thanks.

[DonPolo]

Wow I'd be really interested in the opinions on this one.

 

Seems like you are doing everything right. Identical cleaning regime that I follow but so far my beers have tasted different.

 

I did see one series of posts implying that late dry hopping could lead to infection but a. don't know if that is a 'thing' or b. if so, what do you do about that?

[Ryano2]

So this seems to be happening to me for my last 2 brews.

 

I did a stone & wood pacific ale clone and a james squire cabin fever session ale clone.

Both beers tasted exactly the same.

 

The only thing I can think of is that my beers that tasted very different I did a hop boil and didn't have any steeped grains in them. The 2 I did without a hop boil and steeped grains tasted almost identical.

 

So a little different to your situation, but I'm getting the same problem. You're not alone.

[ChristinaS1]

Hi karlos. Sorry that your brews have not been turning out for you. Hard to say if you have been having repeated infections or not, as it sounds like you are doing a good job sanitizing. Even so, I will point out that brews #1 and #2 were probably under-pitched, especially #1. IMO, if you use more than 500gm of DME, you really ought to use more than 7gm of yeast.

 

The TC IPA tin comes with 7gm of an unknown third party yeast, which may or may not be BRY-97.... BRY-97 has a reputation as a slow starter, which could possibly allow a wild yeast to dominate the brew, especially as you were also under-pitched. But even without a wild yeast infection, under-pitching can lead to its own off flavours.

 

The other two brews were made with US-05. US-05 is widely used and has a lot of fans, but I haven't had much luck with it myself and don't use it anymore. It's a bit slow getting started, but not as slow as BRY-97.

 

The other possible issue is temperature. I have not used used US-05 at 23C, but I wonder if perhaps that is part of the problem? Ditto for brew #1, with the unknown third party yeast. While 23C isn't horrible, IPAs are supposed to be clean, so temps 16-20C are probably better. I like 18C myself.

 

I see you rehydrated the yeast your last couple of brews; that is always a good idea. Keep it up.

 

Speaking from my own experience, my brews began improving when I when I started using more yeast, but they really took a leap forward when I got a brew fridge.

 

I think it is a myth that dry hops cause infections. The hop oils themselves are antibacterial, and by then the beer is also full of alcohol. If you are dry hopping you should have lots of aroma early on, though it falls off quickly, the longer it is in the bottle. Dry hopping commando style might give you more bang for your buck, but if you can't cold crash, they are difficult to remove.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

PS The Lager and APA kits aren't that different, only the Lager kit is slightly more bitter and they come with different yeasts, which you didn't use. If you are going to add dry hops and steep specialty grains, I would recommend avoiding the Thomas Cooper kits, which already have late hops added and are more expensive. The Lager and APA kits are better bases.

[karlos_1984]

I did see one series of posts implying that late dry hopping could lead to infection but a. don't know if that is a 'thing' or b. if so' date=' what do you do about that?[/quote']

 

When I dry hop, I soak a hop sock (which has previously been cleaned) in Starsan for a couple minutes. I then add the hops and tie it off and throw it into the FV, trying to open the lid as little and low as possible.

 

Brews 2 and 3 though, I did the same as above, but also sanitised my big white mixing spoon and put it into the FV as well, to hold the hop sock down toward the bottom of the beer. Left it in the with the lid holding it in place to keep the hops down low, hoping the hops would get more evenly spread through the beer, as I've heard of people using a small weight to hold it down.

[ChristinaS1]

The other thing I'd point out is that all three of your recipes are quite similar in terms of malt bill. You steeped 250gm of caramalt for #2 and #3, whereas #1 probably comes with a similar amount of caramalt from the factory. You also had galaxy and cascade in two of your brews. In the case of #2 you added them both. In the case of #1, you only added galaxy, but that can comes with Cascades already in it. Brew #3 should have tasted different than #1 and #2.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Like Christina says, I don't think you've used enough yeast for the fermentables in the recipes, even if it was re-hydrated. The kit yeast isn't enough for a kit and 1.5kg LDM, and I reckon with the other two you should have used the kit yeast as well as the US-05.

 

This 'band-aid' flavor doesn't taste like extract twang, it's more of a medicinal/phenolic type thing. In any case, try a batch using a kit with 1kg or 1.5kg of LDM, but pitch sufficient yeast and if you can try to keep the temp between 18 and 20. It may well turn out a lot better.

[karlos_1984]

Thanks for the advice guys. It's really disheartening when I'm brewing these up and enjoying the smells of the steeped grains and the hop boils then not getting any of that in return when tasting the finished product. It's interesting that both you guys (Christina and Otto) both suggest the issue is not enough yeast. Before I gave this a go I read a lot of these forums, the Cooper's recipe site and have been an avid follower of the popular YouTube home brewers such as craigtube, gash slug, Dino and KR/fast homebrew. Majority of their basic extract or kits n bits recipes use the same amount of yeast as I'm using and for brews 2 and 3 they were both loosely based off a couple of gash slugs, which either used a single pack of US-05 or kit yeast. On gash's videos he doesn't often rehydrate the yeast either. So if I've followed those recipes with perhaps slightly different hop schedules but kept the fermentables on par and used a rehydrated yeast, then it's still got me buggered what the issue is.

Would it be worth doing a basic APA with just 1kg LDM, using 2 packets of rehydrated kit yeast and a dry hop only to see if it comes out different to the last 2 brews?

[ChristinaS1]

Would it be worth doing a basic APA with just 1kg LDM' date=' using 2 packets of rehydrated kit yeast and a dry hop only to see if it comes out different to the last 2 brews?[/quote']

 

There is great debate about how many cells are actually in a package of dry yeast. It is worth checking a couple of pitching rate calculators when you use a new recipe. I have used MrMalty and the Brewer's Friend. The Brewer's Friend always calls for more grams of yeast, because it makes lower assumptions about how much it contains. I usually try to aim for somewhere between them, as long as it does not involve using part of a package of yeast. Most of the time I use 2 packages of yeast (7gm + 7gm = 14gm), and rehydate.

 

As Otto says, if your calculator indicates you need more than your package of US-05 contains, throw the kit yeast in with it. You are better off over-pitching a little than under-pitching.

 

Is it worth doing a basic kit with 1kg LDM, 14gm of kit yeast, and dry hopping? Sure, but I'd use the Lager kit because the APA kit comes with an ale/lager blend, and that really ought to be fermented at 18C. The Lager kit, despite its name, comes with straight Coopers ale yeast and tolerates >20C temps better than lager yeast.

 

At this stage in your learning, I'd stick to using one hop at a time, so you can get a feel for them, and maybe not Galaxy or Cascades, which you have used often already. I love Citra myself. Not sure how long you are leaving your dry hops in, but I leave mine in for 3 days; you could go up to a week.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Scottie]

Hey Karlos

 

My first question is can you drink the beer, does it taste and smell like beer?

 

Are you boiling the steeped grain wort? That is are you removing the grains at the end of the steep and then boiling the liquid/sugars that has been extracted from the grains?

 

Given the rest of the procedure you are following it is, in my opinion, very difficult to get an infection. I certainly can't see you getting three in a row unless its something fundamental like not boiling the steeped wort. Even so your first didn't have any grains.

 

Twang and temperature I believe are related. I have had twang a couple of times and to me it wasn't dominate and really had to clarify, it was a long time ago and at the time I posted a pretty good description on here somewhere. The beer was tasting good then at the back of the palate there was a taste that doesn't belong there, not offensive just out of place. In my recollection the "Twang" doesn't hit you up front.

 

Christina and Kelsey are spot on, and they are way more knowledgeable about home brewing than I, in that you are stressing you yeast. The combination of 23 degrees and under pitching is really stressing the little sugar munchers. They also don't like too big a temperature variation. I have said this plenty of times before, two weeks is really too early to be expecting great results from your K & K beer even if you have everything right.

 

You don't actually say what quantities of hops you are using and where you have purchased them from or what your boil volume is. I can tell you that 25g of Cascade boiled for 20 minutes in 22 litres gives a great bitter grapefruit edge to all of the beers that I have brewed.

 

Do you have someone else who can taste your beer, I mean someone like an experienced wine drinker who can pick all those abstract flavours. Some peoples' palates are not as refined as others and there are a number of factors that hinder our taste buds.

 

If you get this stout in the bottle and it tastes the same as the others then you really do need someone else to do a taste test.

 

Cheers & Beers

Scottie

Valley Brew

 

 

[Roomfullofmirrors]

Karols, I feel your pain. After brewing great tasting kit and all-grain beers for years, I suddenly started getting batches with symptoms similar to those you are describing... most notably a “sameness” of taste and aroma regardless of style. In the past couple of years I’ve tipped more batches than I’ve kept, replaced vessels and tubing, changed sanitation methods, played with water sources and profiles... basically tried anything and everything to overcome the problem.

 

A few fellow brewers suggested it may be a “wild yeast” problem... where some prevalent strain in the local environment is beating my pitched yeast to the wort and hence the “sameness” of flavour and aroma are products of the wild yeast’s profile. I still don’t know for sure, but I thought I’d factor this in and try to minimise the possibilities of a wild yeast infection...

 

Anyway, I have persisted and lately I’ve had good success. I put it down to a couple of things...

 

Rehydrate packet yeast according to producers instructions and pitch at recommended temps.

Oxygenate the wort as well as you can prior to pitching - I’ve just purchased an O2 kit to facilitate this.

Ferment at cooler temps. 18 max for ales (this I’ve always done, but it is important for clean taste and aroma).

 

It has been a long road for me, but I’m finally seeing some positives. I hope you can sort out your issues quickly and avoid the much more of the frustrations and heartache I know you are feeling.

Hang in there and good luck! I hope some of the tips you are getting here help you on the way to brewing some great beers.

 

[Beerlust]

Hi karlos_1984.

 

Some really good advice already given by the other members, & I agree your yeast pitching rate over the 3 brews given the amount of fermentables used in each case is certainly testing the capabilities of the volume(s) of yeast pitched.

...Brews 2 and 3 though' date=' I did the same as above, but also sanitised my big white mixing spoon and put it into the FV as well, to hold the hop sock down toward the bottom of the beer. Left it in the with the lid holding it in place to keep the hops down low, hoping the hops would get more evenly spread through the beer, as I've heard of people using a small weight to hold it down.[/quote']

I've wanted to speak about this need to have the hops weighted down in the fermenter for sometime now. Is it completely necessary IMHO, NO.

 

When you add your dry hop bag to the beer take the time to dunk it up & down a few times (just like you would a normal tea bag) to completely wet the hops contained in the bag/cloth. Then reseal the fermenter & leave it be for 3-4 days minimum. On removal of the hop bag, squeeze the bag containing the highly flavoursome & aromatic beer that the hops have absorbed back into the fermenter & discard the hop bag.

 

Cheers & good luck with your future brewing.

 

Lusty.

[karlos_1984]

Just posting to thank you all for your great advice and trying to help me overcome these issues. I’ve been pretty busy and haven’t had the chance to get on here to follow up. I’ve got a few other questions and things to point out just in response to some of the comments made.

 

My first question is can you drink the beer' date=' does it taste and smell like beer?

 

Are you boiling the steeped grain wort? That is are you removing the grains at the end of the steep and then boiling the liquid/sugars that has been extracted from the grains?

 

You don't actually say what quantities of hops you are using and where you have purchased them from or what your boil volume is.

 

Do you have someone else who can taste your beer, I mean someone like an experienced wine drinker who can pick all those abstract flavours.

[/quote']

 

The beer smells like beer, pours well and retains a decent enough head for what it is. It is still drinkable and isn’t too bad. Just underwhelming and disappointing as there is literally no taste or smell of the hops used. Nothing whatsoever.

 

It’s still more drinkable than a mass produced mega-swill (although that’s not hard haha).

 

I’m definitely boiling the wort obtained from the steeping grains. On brews 2 and 3, I used 2 litres of water for steep, rinsed the strained grains with a further 1 litre of hot water (previously boiled and let cool a little). This 3 ltr boil volume on both brews 2 and 3 was boiled for 20 mins total.

 

Brew 2 Hop schedule was 15g each of Cascade, Citra, Galaxy at 20 mins, with 10g each of Cascade, Citra, Galaxy at flameout. (25 g of each 3 hops above dry hopped for 4 days).

 

Brew 3 Hop schedule was 20g Cascade, 15g Mosaic at 10 mins, 15g each of Centennial, Mosaic at 1 minute. (30g Cascade, 10g Centennial, 30g Mosaic dry hopped for 5 days).

 

All my hops are purchased from 2 LHBS. One shop has them vacuum sealed and in the fridge. The other shop (which I’ve only bought Citra from) just has them vacuum sealed and sitting on a shelf at room temp. Some of the hops have been sealed in a ziplock bag and frozen after opening, then used across various brews, but thawed in the fridge prior to using.

 

My neighbour (who is a wine drinker) has tasted both brews 2 and 3 and really enjoyed them. He said they were both very sessionable and tasted a fruitiness to them. My dad said the same for brew 3 as it’s the only one he’s tasted.

 

They all still taste the same to me. Twang and not hoppy. Sad face.

 

As Otto says' date=' if your calculator indicates you need more than your package of US-05 contains, throw the kit yeast in with it. You are better off over-pitching a little than under-pitching.

 

Not sure how long you are leaving your dry hops in, but I leave mine in for 3 days; you could go up to a week.

[/quote']

 

As you’ve suggested above Christina, can you rehydrate both a pack of US-05 (11.5g) and a pack of Cooper’s yeast (7g), together, in the same volume of sterile water (185ml). Or do both need to be rehydrated in separate volumes of water, prior to pitching?

 

I dry hop for 4-5 days then bottle the beer.

 

When you add your dry hop bag to the beer take the time to dunk it up & down a few times (just like you would a normal tea bag) to completely wet the hops contained in the bag/cloth. Then reseal the fermenter & leave it be for 3-4 days minimum. On removal of the hop bag' date=' squeeze the bag containing the highly flavoursome & aromatic beer that the hops have absorbed back into the fermenter & discard the hop bag.

[/quote']

 

I’ll try this next time, thanks Lusty. FYI, I leave the hop sock in the FV while I’m bottling. This is in attempt to get as much flavour out of it. When squeezing the hop socks like you mentioned, is an un-gloved hand dipped in sanitiser the way to go, or is a food grade glove and sanitiser required?

 

After all of this, it seems I really need to get a fermenting fridge. To be honest, it has been a massive PITA to keep adding cold water to this towel around my FV and try to maintain constant temp over summer. After a few days, the water has to be syphoned out too. Plus I have to unwrap the towel, empty the water, then lift the FV out of the bucket to check SG towards the end.

 

If I get stuck on long hours at work I’ve sometimes come home after midnight and found the temp has creeped up to 24 degrees. Then of course when the cold water is added to the towel wrapped around the FV, it drops pretty quickly to about 18 degrees. This must be causing issues.

 

Based off all your advice, it seems I’m not pitching enough yeast. My thoughts were that the rehydrating was meant to resolve this issue. (Still confused how all the YouTube brewers get away with using only one packet at a time).

 

If my beers have been under-pitched, therefore there must still be fermentables still lurking around in the beer. Is this a correct assumption? Could this be the reason they taste the same? I haven’t had any bottle bombs (yet).

 

Even if these beers have been under-pitched and not fully fermented out, how come this has over-powered the taste and not allowed any hop aroma or flavour through. I would have thought that a 70-80g dry hop would be more than enough in 21 litres to be the dominant flavour of the finished product.

 

Thank you all once again for your advice and help. I’m sorry this is such a long winded post, but I wanted to just clarify a few of the points raised to try and get this brewing hobby back on the right track. At the moment it’s still something I’m really keen to get into but if I can’t get the result I’m after it might be all over red rover. Cheers.

 

[Beervis]

Some great advice has been given here already so I won't repeat it - just wanted to add that all my beers tasted the same before I got a brew fridge, except for one.. But they were all K+K's that were fermented with kit yeast and no temp control and no hops. I think the non-stout kits are often not that different anyway.

 

I don't think your problem is infection. I suppose all infections aren't created equally, but you should be able to pick 'infected' flavours out of a beer pretty easily, and your neighbour and dad both seemed to like them. Anyone who's an experienced wine drinker would notice that immediately I reckon. Based off the recipes I'd like them too, sound like nice drops.

 

And you're right, the amount of hops you're using should definitely be noticeable. I put a 10gm teabag of Galaxy into a 22L APA+ 1kg LDM (2 packs kit yeast) and it was very noticeable. The other day I did a steep of 30gms Chinook into a Bootmaker Pale Ale and it was the only thing I could taste taking SG. It was aggressive even, practically jumped out of the tub and gave me a slap.

 

I'd recommend using an extra pack of yeast - I never bother rehydrating and I don't brew temps as low as Christina recommends and I still get good results. Not saying you shouldn't, definitely rehydrate, I'm just lazy and have read conflicting reports about the usefulness of it. I follow the Coopers recipes too and they generally recommend brewing ales at around 20 depending on recipe.

 

I'm wondering if it's either not aging the beer enough - I'd give it 4 or 5 weeks - or whether it's your pallet. Do you usually drink like the most expensive most hoppy small batch wet hopped hazy IPA or whatever at your local craft pub place? Or exclusively drink DIPA's at home? To get some of those more aggressive hop flavours takes a lot more hops. AG recipes for big IPA's usually have heaps. Maybe it's that.

 

1 last thing - underpitched beers with lots of fermentables might taste a bit sweet.

2 last thing - kit taste/twang shouldn't be detectable under all those hops. Well not for me anyway and I think I'm pretty fussy

 

This is a confusing one for sure!

[Roomfullofmirrors]

Based off all your advice' date=' it seems I’m not pitching enough yeast. My thoughts were that the rehydrating was meant to resolve this issue. (Still confused how all the YouTube brewers get away with using only one packet at a time).

 

If my beers have been under-pitched, therefore there must still be fermentables still lurking around in the beer. Is this a correct assumption? Could this be the reason they taste the same? I haven’t had any bottle bombs (yet).

 

[/quote']

 

1 x 11g pkt of yeast should contain more than enough viable cells to ferment a OG 1050 beer ...provided yeast is pitched at/in optimum temps/conditions etc

 

Poor aeration can cause yeast cell stress - giving poorer performance and throwing off flavours. So can temperature.

 

It may be that you haven't underpitched, but more likely that your yeast is "stressed" and not performing to its potential? Another factor to consider is the condition of the yeast in the packet... old or mishandled packet yeast will likely underperform.

[ChristinaS1]

As Otto says' date=' if your calculator indicates you need more than your package of US-05 contains, throw the kit yeast in with it. You are better off over-pitching a little than under-pitching.[/quote']

 

As you’ve suggested above Christina, can you rehydrate both a pack of US-05 (11.5g) and a pack of Cooper’s yeast (7g), together, in the same volume of sterile water (185ml). Or do both need to be rehydrated in separate volumes of water, prior to pitching?

 

Yes, you can rehydrate them in the same vessel.

 

If your bottles are not gushing when opened, then they probably fermented out okay. I still think that the problem is stressed yeast due to under-pitching and poor temperature control. Pitching a decent amount of yeast is something that can be done immediately.

 

Yeah, you are right about a swamp cooler being a PITA. A brew fridge is definitely the way to go.

 

As for those people online who appear to be getting away using 7gm of yeast in big recipes, remember that you only have their word for it that their beer tastes fantastic. Maybe you wouldn't agree if you got a chance to taste it? IME, cutting corners does not lead to consistently great results. Before I got a brew fridge I had batches that turned out well, especially after I started using better ingredients, and more yeast, but it was frustratingly hit or miss. My consistency didn't improve until I got a brew fridge.

 

Rehydrating does not prevent under-pitching; it just helps more cells make it through the hydration process. You still have to use an adequate number of grams.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Beerlust]

G'day JustinG4, & if i haven't said already, welcome to the forum.

1 x 11g pkt of yeast should contain more than enough viable cells to ferment a OG 1050 beer ...provided yeast is pitched at/in optimum temps/conditions etc.

+1

 

I too work off that premise.

 

In the case of karlos's brews' date=' his brew 2 came in around 1.063 OG, & brew 3 came in around 1.055 OG according to IanH's spreadsheet calculations. The 1.055 brew he may have gotten away with, but there's a better than even chance that the 1.063 brew would not have fermented out fully & stressed the yeast potentially causing some off flavours. [img']unsure[/img]

 

As Otto advised earlier, the kit "twang" can be minimized/eliminated by reducing the amount of simple sugars in your brew & maintaining a lower, more stable ferment temperature.

 

Any off flavours produced by stressed yeast can be eliminated by making sure you pitch an adequate amount of yeast cells to deal with the Original Gravity of the wort you intend to ferment.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Shibby]

Hi Karlos, I still do the odd can brew when time is short ( with temp control), and also brew with someone else the same recipes. I have temperature control, and the other brewer doesn't. Without temp control, I find all the brews tastes basically the same even the differant ranges, there will be a difference in bitterness, but flavors almost identical, even with alot of hops being added. I dont have any science, but my theory is temp control, and phenol flavors overpowering or removing hop flavors.

If your sticker on the FV says 20-23, it could actually be a few degrees warmer in the centre of the brew, and when the yeast is active may also be a few degrees higher. I dont like to go over 18c with the US05 yeasts,

The other brewers beers in winter, come out significantly better, and some are fantastic, which also leads me to temp control.

Also the yeast advice others mentioned sound helpful too.

 

You should try an extract brew and see how you like it. Search for some recipes, they are quick and easy to try, and see if you notice more flavors.

 

[Roomfullofmirrors]

G'day JustinG4' date=' & if i haven't said already, welcome to the forum. [img']smile[/img]

1 x 11g pkt of yeast should contain more than enough viable cells to ferment a OG 1050 beer ...provided yeast is pitched at/in optimum temps/conditions etc.

+1

 

I too work off that premise.

 

In the case of karlos's brews' date=' his brew 2 came in around 1.063 OG, & brew 3 came in around 1.055 OG according to IanH's spreadsheet calculations. The 1.055 brew he may have gotten away with, but there's a better than even chance that the 1.063 brew would not have fermented out fully & stressed the yeast potentially causing some off flavours. [img']unsure[/img]

 

As Otto advised earlier, the kit "twang" can be minimized/eliminated by reducing the amount of simple sugars in your brew & maintaining a lower, more stable ferment temperature.

 

Any off flavours produced by stressed yeast can be eliminated by making sure you pitch an adequate amount of yeast cells to deal with the Original Gravity of the wort you intend to ferment.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

 

Thanks for the welcome, Lusty! I realised that it's taken me 7 years to make my first post ... Anyway, I've had some experience with the problems Karlos is facing, so I felt compelled to respond. I agree with your remarks about the higher gravity beer and pitching rates.

While we are talking yeast performance, when I first started brewing I was using 3kg paint can kits from ESB, basically dump in the extract, mix with a bit of boiling water and top up to 23 litres. The LHBS supllied the kits with Mauribrew 514 ale yeast (7 grams). The yeast was bulletproof!! Even in summer in Central Qld it never failed to knock out great beers. I haven't seen it around for a while?

Good luck Karlos! I really hope you get it sorted! Don't be affraid to go right back to basics and work on one component of your process until you eliminate it as a possible cause.

[Beerlust]

...The LHBS supllied the kits with Mauribrew 514 ale yeast (7 grams). The yeast was bulletproof!! Even in summer in Central Qld it never failed to knock out great beers. I haven't seen it around for a while?

It's still around. The Country Brewer use it as the yeast that accompanies some or all of their ale range of brew cans & also sell it separately in 10gm sachets. (Linky)

 

It's a beast alright! Gets to work fast' date=' is a vigorous fermenter, & high attenuator. Not the greatest flavour profile I thought, but very reliable though.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.[/size']

[Roomfullofmirrors]

...The LHBS supllied the kits with Mauribrew 514 ale yeast (7 grams). The yeast was bulletproof!! Even in summer in Central Qld it never failed to knock out great beers. I haven't seen it around for a while?

It's still around. The Country Brewer use it as the yeast that accompanies some or all of their ale range of brew cans & also sell it separately in 10gm sachets. (Linky)

 

It's a beast alright! Gets to work fast' date=' is a vigorous fermenter, & high attenuator. Not the greatest flavour profile I thought, but very reliable though.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.[/size']

 

I’ve just ordered some for old times sake! Thanks for the link, Lusty

[karlos_1984]

As Otto says' date=' if your calculator indicates you need more than your package of US-05 contains, throw the kit yeast in with it. You are better off over-pitching a little than under-pitching.[/quote']

 

As you’ve suggested above Christina, can you rehydrate both a pack of US-05 (11.5g) and a pack of Cooper’s yeast (7g), together, in the same volume of sterile water (185ml). Or do both need to be rehydrated in separate volumes of water, prior to pitching?

A

 

Rehydrating does not prevent under-pitching; it just helps more cells make it through the hydration process. You still have to use an adequate number of grams.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

I've picked up a TC Bookmakers pale on special.

If I follow the recipe with 1kg of ldme up to 20 litres, is the 7g of kit yeast going to cut it, or should I throw in a pack of US-05 as well, given my bad run lately?

 

Was going to keep this recipe simple, no boil or steeped grains this time. Maybe just a dry hop, to see if I can actually taste something different to the last 3 brews.

[ben 10]

 

If I follow the recipe

 

Yes, that will be enough yeast if you follow the recipe.

Rehydrate it though.

 

All the best with the brew

[ChristinaS1]

Hi Karlos,

 

While many have had success using 7gm of Coopers yeast to ferment out a kit and 1kg DME, I am not so sure you will have the same luck with the yeast that comes with the Bootmaker Pale Ale kit (it comes with the same third party yeast as the TC IPA). Not all yeast are as vigorous as Coopers yeast. BTW, what is the expiry date on the kit? Just wondering because you mention it was on sale, and that might mean the kit / yeast is old.

 

Mr Malty, a well respected pitching rate calculator, says that for your gravity of 1.039, you ought to use 9gm of one day old yeast, and 11gm if it is six months old. Using 7gm, you'd be under-pitching a bit. It might do fine, it might not. Given your run of bad luck I think a win is really important, so I am going to respectfully disagree with Ben (I really hate disagreeing with Ben) and suggest you use the US-05 for this brew. Save the kit yeast in your fridge and chuck it in with your next brew (7gm + 7gm = 14gm). Be sure to rehydrate the US-05, using a thermometer, and the high end of the recommended range.*

 

Let us know how it goes this time Karlos. Hopefully the weather will cooperate when you brew. As I mentioned earlier, while my brews got better when I started using more yeast, they improved way more when I got a brew fridge. You need both for consistently great fermentations.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

* Personally I don't use US-05 anymore, but I always found the recommended rehydration temperature range (25-29C) given by Fermentis strangely low. Nowadays I rehydrate at 38C.

 

 

[karlos_1984]

BTW' date=' what is the expiry date on the kit? Just wondering because you mention it was on sale, and that might mean the kit / yeast is old.

 

[/quote']

 

Hi Christina.

 

The extract can itself has a best before date of March 2019. The Julian date on the pack.of yeast says March 2017, so it's about 12 months old now.

 

Ive read elsewhere that the yeast with this kit is quite possibly US-05 anyway. Apparently Cooper's changed it awhile back due to people having dramas with the previous yeast strain stalling more often than not.

 

I've always rehydrated US-05 at about 30 degrees