joolbag Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 My FunkyTown Saison has been sitting at 20°C for 2 days now' date=' so this morning i set my temp controller to turn the fridge on when it reaches 32°C. I will just let it free rise for the remainder of the fermentation. If it gets too cold, ill bump up the heating side to about 25°C or so. Keen to see what sort of flavours i get from this yeast strain Cheers Rowbrew[/quote'] Hey Rowbrew, I'm going to brew a saison this Friday and it should be in the fermenter in a week or two. I have been doing some reading on here and in my books about saisons (and Belgian yeasts in general) and the recommendation I had was to not let that temp dip once it has started to rise. These yeasts may choose to give it up and drop out of solution if the temp drops. I am going to do the same as you to begin with, 2 days at 20C, then free rise for 12 hours. It isn't super warm here in Sydney at the moment so I will put a heat belt on at night and ramp it up to 32C, probably 2C every 12 hours or so and then the heat belt will keep it there. That way the temp will be on a constant upward tick. I am going to carbonate to 2.8 or 2.9 vols CO2, in glass bottles so I want to give the saison yeast every chance to attenuate fully in the FV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowbrew Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Hey Joolbag, I have taken your advice and set my temp controller to 29°C, with a difference of .3°C each way. Cheers for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon 1525230220 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 In my fermenter at the moment is my first Amber Ale: * 1 tin Family Secret Amber Ale * 1.5 kg Light Dry Malt * 300g dextrose * 2 x coopers TC kit yeast * 50g Amarillo for dry hopping/hop tea before bottling Hoping it will be a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Hey Rowbrew' date=' I'm going to brew a saison this Friday and it should be in the fermenter in a week or two. I have been doing some reading on here and in my books about saisons (and Belgian yeasts in general) and the recommendation I had was to not let that temp dip once it has started to rise. These yeasts may choose to give it up and drop out of solution if the temp drops.[/quote'] Jools, Just bottled my very first Saison, batch #68 I think it was. I did some research, came up with my own recipe, I used Belle Saison dry yeast, which I picked up on special from Beerco at $1.99, was due to expire in a couple of months. I did consider using one of the liquid yeasts, but due to the reading I did on those, it would have been a much longer and possibly drawn out ferment, and I need to get this one done pronto for the ISB comp coming up. I used quite a whack of unmalted fine burgul wheat, 300g honey, some oats, acid malt, gladfield pils, tiny bit of roasted malt for colour (30g I think), I don’t have the recipe with me here and cant remember the quantities exactly.. Used Magnum and Fuggles hops. Acid then Protein rests at 44 and 56 then mashed quite low at 62 for some time (50 mins I think) then 67 for an hour, then mashout. Made and fermented this during the recent heatwave outside the brew fridges (there were two other batches brewing in those!) so the ambient under the house in the garage was around 26 to 27, pitched the rehydrated Belle Saison when wort was about 29. It took off faster than I had ever see one take off, had 10mm krausen in 3 hours. Temp climbed to 30 and stayed there, and the thing looked like it was boiling. I fitted the krausen kollar but didn’t need it, although the activity was massive, the krausen didn’t go higher than about 3 inches. Was all but done in 48 hrs at 1.003 and at 72 hours was 1.000 on the nose. Let it sit for 8 days at room temp to clear and bottled a couple of days ago. I am going to carbonate to 2.8 or 2.9 vols CO2' date=' in glass bottles so I want to give the saison yeast every chance to attenuate fully in the FV.[/quote'] I used 230g of sucrose into 22 litres for 3.3 vols. I’ve never used more than 200g before. My carb calc in my brewcipher sheet has a temp input and if you say the highest temp it has been to is 30c during active fermentation, it ups the sugar amount quite a bit due to less CO2 in solution. Bottled in 300g Asahi bottles only. Not sure if they actually are any stronger but they certainly are heavier. I am a tad nervous going that high in glass, would be much safer in PET actually, which is usually rated much higher than glass. But I like to give them away to taster friends so don’t want to give them my PETS. I was also very nervous fermenting any beer at 30c, as I have been used to running sub 20 for so long, excepting Weiss’s and wits. Tasting though while bottling the other night, was exciting, it was wonderfully funky.. I cant wait to taste one carbonated! I know it’s going to be good from those samples I had. So will enter it into the ISB comp ( held 17th March at Wayward Brewhouse) and see what I can get for my maiden attempt at one of these using dry yeast :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Had a look at my sheet, 22 litres carbed to 3.3 vols as I mentioned requires 230g sucrose if the brew has been to 30C. If I change that to 18c it drops to 211g required, 10c is 186g so a difference of about 10% for every ten degrees. The note in my sheet says "This is the temperature of your beer at the end of active fermentation, or the temperature at bottling, whichever is higher. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Thanks for the detailed reply headmaster. Wow down to 1.000 in 72 hours! What attenuation did you get from Belle Saison? What was OG? I'm going to use M29 French Saison because I heard good reviews of it and it should throw the flavours I want in a saison. Really excited to brew this now after chatting to you! I will also be entering some beers into the ISB competition. I want to see how my German pilsner scores, and I have a few other beers that I could enter (a Vienna lager and my take on a Pacific Ale - basically Stone & Wood hopped up). The feedback is very much worth it the entry fee. I would love to share some of these beers with you. I won't make it to the Feb ISB meeting, but I did read (I think) that Dermott from BeerCo is coming to March meeting? I definitely would like to come to that so perhaps we can organise a brew swap. Like you, I am brewing more than I can consume and my friends are loving it. I value the opinion of fellow brewers more highly, because it will be constructive and honest. I've found my friends vary in their tastes for proper craft beer, and I think they might say nice things just to keep the free beer flowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild dog Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Got a dodgy kit pale ale in the f. V fermenting at around 27-28 as my Brew fridge has given up! Chucked a bunch of citra in it to try save it. Think I'll try a saison next as I'm shit out of options here in the Adelaide heat wave, got a new fridge on the way but at the moment my brewing is shite ,cheers folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Well my India Brown Saison in the fermenter is nice and hoppy, but not brown or with quite enough roast. So tonight I made a chocolate malt concentrate to attempt to fix this. I steeped 100g JWM chocolate malt in 750ml yet, then boiled it down to a concentrated syrup. After cooling, I added to the fermenter. See how this goes! Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Earlier today I squeezed & removed the dry hop additions of my current "Mid-strength Nirvana" style beer, & put the beer into cold condition mode. It smelled terrific. The FG of a beer like this is what I'd like to be drinking a little more often in the Summer months. If my experimentation(s) with using a dry enzyme during primary fermentation doesn't pan out as I hope for, I might have to get used to drinking more mid-strength beers during the warmer months. Not a totally bad thing by any stretch, but I enjoy the 4.5 - 5.0% ABV level for the most part. I'm hopeful (at some point) of producing an extract based beer that hits the marks I'm looking for. Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 My red ale has been allowed to rise up to 22C over the past day and the krausen is now over 2 inches thick. I'd have to think that it is pretty close to FG by now, as yesterday's reading had it around 1.022 or so after three days. I'll check it again on Monday and Wednesday next week and most likely drop it down to 0 on Wednesday for a week then keg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngie Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I have my Citroe Pale Ale. It is a pale ale with citra and simcoe. Should come in around 4.7% ABV so it will be nice and sessionable to finish out summer!! Youngie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prang Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Bits Pale ale Ran out of pale malt so used 50% Pilsener and 40% Vienna with a mix off 10% carahell and Dark Crystal. Hops were Nelson and Simcoe at 15 and 0 minutes and Magnum at 60. 36 ibu's I'm not sure what it will taste like I've never used that much Vienna or crystal but it won't go to waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilthyBrewer Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 In the fermenter we have an " I dont know" so ill call it an XPA lol 2.5kg pale malt 2kg pilsner malt 500 gm wheat malt 60 min 20gm mosaic 5 min 20 gm citra & galacxy flame out 30 gm mosaic. fermenting nicly @19 hit 93% mash efficncy.. gen 1 robobrew pretty stoked!!! Cheers to the Beers Philthy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowbrew Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 My Funky Town Saison has been in the FV for nearly 2 weeks now and has been sitting at 1.006 for the past 6 days. Now i didn't get any sort of tartness from this, so i am considering transfering to a secondary and leaving it for 12 months or so. I read somewhere that this process can add tartness to a saison, or am i just wishful thinking? Would i need to add another bug to the mix to get the tart/sour i am looking for? If you think this is a bad idea, ill probably just bottle it up and try kettle souring next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowbrew Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 So i have thought about this during the day and have made a decision. I will transfer to another FV where it will stay for another 2 weeks or so, then bottle it. Reason being is i want to get this English Mild on the chew, and need my ferm fridge free. Plus i want to be 100% sure that my Saison is done too. I dont really want bottle bombs! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Rowbrew, I would've thought that saison was done? 1.006 is where mine is predicted to get to. But I have read stories of the beer continuing to ferment much lower in the bottle. My Nelson Saison saison modelled off Ben10's recipe has hit the fermenter this evening. I bottled my Gose (also inspired by Ben10 - theme here?!) last night, so pitched my cube of saison when I got home from work. I had the forethought to make a 1.2L starter of M29 French Saison yeast, and pitched it at high krausen into my wort. Looks like it might already be fermenting at only 3.5hours in? Never pitched a starter at high krausen before. Will look in the morning and confirm. Plan for my saison is to keep it at 18C in the brew fridge for 2 days, then let it free rise to 24ish. I will be careful to not let the wort/beer drop in temp, so heatbelt will go on and will set it incrementally to 32C. I want this yeast to finish and not floc out early! Looking forward to it and might enter this into the ISB Homebrew comp for feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowbrew Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Rowbrew' date=' I would've thought that saison was done? 1.006 is where mine is predicted to get to. But I have read stories of the beer continuing to ferment much lower in the bottle.[/quote'] Hey Joolbag, yeah i think you're right in saying that its done. I mainly wanted my brew fridge free for my English Mild, and didn't have time to bottle the Saison. Have you made many Saisons jools? Have you ever made one with a slight sour/tart finish? I really really like the Chevalier Saison from Bridge Road Brewery, and would love to try and get that signiture tart finish. Do you have any ideas? Cheers Mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 The last 3 saisons I have made (fermented with Belle Saison) all finished at around 1.006. I'd say yours is done Rowbrew. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 My first saison that I am drinking now, actually hit 1.000 but I mashed lowish, had 300g honey in there, and pitched my Belle Saison during a heatwave so it screamed to the finish at 30 deg C from a pitch at ambient 29c wort temp was 26c. Jools, going to submit this one for the ISB Comp as well. I’m pretty happy with it apart from the head retention, which is poor for some reason. I often do the same rest schedule with no head retention issues so thinking it was the wild ferment at 30c that has affected head. Just needs a bit of a swirl to keep a head on the beer. Carb is so high, it gives you burping superpowers! Copy of my notes below: Brew 67 Aussie Day! Evening, first saison as per recipe in XLS. Mash schedule was 44c for 20mins, 56c for 30mins, then 62.5 for 90mins. Iodine says converted. Ph at 44c rest was 5.17. Nice and low for this style to give a tartness. 70 min boil., 300g honey, 0.3 g pepper, one camomile tea bag dunked a bit for a minute, 8.3 g coriander seed crushed, in with flameout hops. Looks like 1051. Filled cube. . Almost 25l into fv.. Pitched belle saison next day, the 27th Jan mid-morning, at ambient 29c, took off in a few hours! Raced to finish in three days at around 29 to 30c the whole time. 1.000grav On 3rd feb Check grav before bottling. Checked still at 1.000 5th feb Bottling night 5th feb, 230 g sucrose for 3.3 vols - highest temp in calc 30c total for 23 litres. All Asahi bottles. [/i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Hey there saison brewers. Sorry for late reply Rowbrew. This is my first saison! I have done a bit of reading on the style and the yeast can make ALL the difference, and the ferment temperature/schedule is another variable to overlay. I am not sure if my yeast choice of M29 French Saison dried yeast has sour/tart characteristics, but will tell you when I have a taste of an SG sample (haven’t taken one yet). I have enjoyed a few commercial samples. The Exit Brewing Saison sticks in my mind, but I cannot remember if it has a tartness. Not overly funky. I haven’t tried the Bridge Road Brewers one yet, but have read about it so many times. I have to track it down as they are one of my favourite breweries. For reference, this is the schedule I am using for my saison ferment. Temp controlled 18C for 48hrs Allow to free-rise for 24hrs Heat the fermentation chamber, ramping up 2C every 12 hours until I get to 32C. Yes I am going for a hot finish! I have read a bit about the saison stall, which I believe Blacksands and others have experienced. My reading in books and online suggests to never let the temp drop until fermentation is finished, otherwise the yeast may flocculate early and stall. There was some other literature and an experiment with some American homebrewers that suggested that the stall may have been pressure-related. The recommendation was to use the gladwrap method to avoid excess pressure in the FV. I don’t use an airlock, but have the FV lid screwed on loosely (thank for the tip Kelsey). I have backed it off a bit more than usual for this fermentation. My saison is 63 hours in and I have let it free-rise from the 48hrs mark. Was 18.1C when I let it free-rise, about 4 hrs later it was 19.6C and this morning it was 21.1C. I hope it will get to 24C by this evening and will whack the heating belt on. Might take a gravity sample so I can have a taste and get an idea of attenuation so far. When did you guys bottle your saisons? I was thinking 2 weeks as fermentation is well and truly over for my usual ales. But read online to not bottle before 3 weeks, just in case there is that stall. No cold crash for this beer of course. I have put aside all of my strongest bottles (500mL Stone&Wood and 450mL swingtop Grolsch) for this batch as I am planning to carbonate to 3.0vols+ CO2 headmaster. Jools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headmaster Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 G'day Jools, Mine was bottled on the 5th of Feb, so ten days in FV, no cold crash. This is only because I used Danstar Belle Saison, which is not plagued by the stalling and slow fermentation issues when compared to the traditional strains. I know this may mean my Saison may be slightly less than authentic but it from my very limited experience it tastes exactly like a Dupont to me. Because I was planning 3.3 vols, I needed to be sure it had finished and I was pretty sure because it sat at 1.000 for several days while still at close to 30C in the heat wave. Was all done on a shelf in my garage, in the middle of the biggest heatwave of the year, I had two other batches taking up space in my two brewfridges.. Never had three batches on the go at once before. So 17 days after bottling, carbonation has peaked and yes it gives you serious burping superpowers when you drink it. No bottles have failed touch wood, and the Coopers squeeze test PET is tight as a drum. No gushers when opening but I suspect that might happen if you disturbed the small yeast layer before pouring. I will report back what the BJCP judges say about it, from the ISB comp next month held on the 17th March (St Pats Day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 About to put my APA brewed with Chinook and Centennial into the FV. Guessing 25L at a tick over 1.046 OG. Will ferment it at 19C. SWMBO and I are heading away for the weekend later tonight so ti's the perfect time to put it in and forget about it, then take the usual 3 days reading on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Well in my big carboy I have an English Bitter which I am quite hopeful about: 1.7kg Cooper OS Lager kit 1.3kg bulk LME 350gm Vienna partial mash x 60 min (9.9%) 200gm C60L (5.6%) 100gm C120L (2.8%) 175gm torrified wheat (4.9%) 10gm Willamette boiled x 15 min 5gm Centennial boiled x 15 min 15gm Willamette @ 80C (FO) 10gm Centennial @ 80C (FO) 22L 14 gm Coopers Ale yeast (= 2 pkg rehydrated) But yesterday I also put on a 4L batch of something completely different: Hibiscus Rice Wine /Cider 1kg glutenous rice, boiled, not strained 30gm hibiscus flowers 4gm alpha amylase powder 1 crushed Beano tablet (same as dry enzyme) 2gm tartaric acid 6gm Hungarian oak cubes (= only five cubes; will remove after 1-2 weeks) 2.5gm Lalvin EC1118 champagne yeast 4L+ (well) water I made a tea with the hibiscus flowers and let it steep for several hours, then strained the flowers out and used the tea as part of the 4L. I chose hibiscus flowers for their acidity, and supplemented with tartaric acid. I used a pH meter to make sure the pH was 3.5. It is important the pH be <3.6 to avoid spoilage by bacteria. I lined the bucket with a grain bag before pouring the rice porridge in, for easy removal later. At this point the porridge is an amazing fuchsia /magenta colour; I hope the colour stays this way. So far nothing appears to be happening in the bucket, but I know from a previous experience making rice wine that it can take several days for signs of life to develop, as the enzymes first have to convert the starch into sugar.....This is my first time using a package of commercial alpha amylase powder, Beano, and champagne yeast as a substitute for Chinese Rice Balls. We'll see how it turns out. Depending on the ABV I get, and the flavour, I may or may not add some sugar later to bump the alcohol level up to 10% (wine territory). Update: 24hours after pitching the yeast the stiff rice porridge had already liquified to a thin gruel and the yeast was bubbling away. This was a lot sooner than last time, when I used Chinese Rice balls; this is probably related to the high dose of alpha enzyme I used. Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 The krausen has dropped on my kits and bits American Brown. It's at 1.020 so in went my dry hop (4g/l Centennial). From previous experience with the Coopers commercial ale yeast it will slowly drop a few more points. I wouldn't be surprised if this one finished pretty high - it's an extract base with a fair bit of crystal and chocolate malt in there. It is tasting beautiful though! Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB1962 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Tried something new yesterday. Brewed a smash with Red X malt and Amarillo, although I suppoes it is technically not a single malt as it is my understanding thar Red X is a blend of malts. Mashed it as per the info on the National HomeBrew website: 52C for 30min 66C for 30min 72C for 30min 76C mashout for 10min Could be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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