Beerlust Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Brewing a pale type beer with a saison strain' date=' starting @ 18° to minimise saison flavours to try and get a dry beer - like lusty was - but without dex or enzyme.[/quote']A low mash temp should help keep it dry (something I can't do). What the yeast throws at that lower ferment temp will be interesting though. The literature suggests if you plan to hold it at that 18°C temp, there is a chance the yeast may stall part way through fermentation. I would certainly be mindful of that going into a brew like this. I'll look forward to your comments down the track. Good luck with the brew mate. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 The literature suggests if you plan to hold it at that 18°C temp' date=' there is a chance the yeast [u']may[/u] stall part way through fermentation. I'll be ramping for sure. Cheers Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 That’s also a reason for releasing the saison 2 strain as it has less chance of stalling at that mid range. I’d still open ferment at that range for the first few days then ramp it up for the clean up stage. Cheers Captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Tomorrow I am going to make a pale ale, kind of following Ben Kraus' thought process of all hops coming in late, not sure if HE came up with it but I read it from a post by Lusty on here. Blackrock ultra light 1.7kg 500g dry light malt 250g dextrose 250g carapils 50g of Vic Secret and Mosaic hops at 5 min boil 15 min steep then actively cool to 18-20c MJ M44 yeast 25g of each dry hop I am expecting the IBUs to be around ~24 4.5l boil with 400g of dme. OG is expected at 1.040 and finish at 1.008 for around 4ish. I did pretty much this same brew with citra and galaxy so hoping this one comes out just as good. I was going to fine with gelatin, but I am thinking it will clear in the keg. I am not huge on clarity but since I have been using wheat my beers have been cloudy. Great head retention but cloudy. Any thoughts/changes would be met kindly, I have never used mosaic. Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Hi Norris. 50g of Vic Secret and Mosaic hops at 5 min boil 15 min steep then actively cool to 18-20c... ...I am expecting the IBUs to be around ~24... ...4.5l boil with 400g of dme... ...OG is expected at 1.040 and finish at 1.008 for around 4ish. Be very careful of the model I have highlighted around your current brew. You are likely right on the limits of how adding the volume of hops you are vs the volume of wort you have as to whether they will impact & maximise to desired & expected levels. In short' date=' if you plan to dump a lot of late hops to create your bitterness & retain flavour/aroma, then make sure you have an adequate volume of wort to dump it in, else you risk losing large amounts of bitterness, flavour, & even aroma through hop absorption & diminished returns. Degrees of the malt wort are also lost due to absorption. It's not spoken of much these days, but "Garetz Theory" of IBU calculation & more importantly how hop volumes are diminished in certain volumes of wort is still very relevant (IMHO). This reality is why you don't see ANY late dumps of hops during the boil with ANY of my brews, as I simply don't boil enough volume to reach reasonable levels with the aftermath. Good luck with the brew. [img']wink[/img] Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 S#it! Maybe I should wait til after my birthday and I get my 20l pot? If I did a 10l boil do you think that would help or even bigger at 15l? I need to read about that theory. I have seen it mentioned a few times but honestly I know nothing about that. Hmmm, what if I went with a more conventional schedule Warrior to get me around 16 to 18 and then flameout with 25g of Vic Secret and Mosaic. That should work and lessen the hop matter and absorption and keep the IBUs relative to what I was going for? Let steep for 15 min then cool. I gotta go back and crunch some numbers. I could keep the 2 hops and lengthen the boils which would bring more rounded flavours from the 2 hops and lessen the total used I the boil and then dry hop...yeah you got me thinking! Cheers, Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 If you plan to boil lowish volumes as I do Norris, then look to create a separate pot of hot wort to use for your steeping hops. Under Garetz theory, & the realistic view of diminished returns if using inadequate volumes for adding hops to, you will maximise your hop addition returns at lower volumes to the level (or better) than full volume brewers do. I say that last comment with all honesty based on utilisation returns available to each situation. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 If you plan to boil lowish volumes as I do Norris' date=' then look to create a separate pot of hot wort to use for your steeping hops. Under Garetz theory, & the realistic view of diminished returns if using inadequate volumes for adding hops to, you will maximise your hop addition returns at lower volumes to the level (or better) than full volume brewers do. I say that last comment with all honesty based on utilisation returns [b']available[/b] Cheers Lusty. Are you saying to boil some hops for bitterness in 1 pot and then have another for steeping hops? Cheers, Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Are you saying to boil some hops for bitterness in 1 pot and then have another for steeping hops? If you are using large volumes of hops & smallish boil volumes' date=' then yes. It's just like making a hop tea on the side, but I mix in some malt extract & steep that while the boil pot cools in the sink. [img']wink[/img] Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Genius. I will do that today! Thank you for the insight Lusty. Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Brewing up my German lager today posted on the previous page, just waiting for the bag to drain before it gets a squeeze and I can take the pre-boil sample, throw in the first wort hops for a 15 minute steep before bringing the wort to boil for 90 minutes. Then I've got a buck's party to get to... was meant to be arriving in there in a bit over 2 hours but I woke up late today and I need this brew done so I'll be later than planned but not by too much. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 I put down the pale ale from above just now. I followed Lusty's advice and did Black rock ultra 1.7kg 500g light dry malt 250g dextrose 250g carapils steeped for 30 min. I then steeped 25g of Vic Secret and Mosaic for 30 min at 80c in sweet wort in a separate pot 15g of warrior at 30 minutes in 4.5 liters of wort, a different pot Then at flameout 25g of each steeped for 30min. MJ M44 yeast pitched at 19c rehydrated I think it will be around 24ibus or so. I will toss in 25g of each dry hop in on day 10 or I might keg hop but unsure about grassiness or if it is better than just a normal dry hop. I guess only one way to know. I am thinking the warrior will give off some pine to go with the fruity Vic Secret and whatever Mosaic brings to the table. Excited to try this. Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QK Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Amber Ale 3 kg P/A .6 kg Munich .25 kg Victory .125 kg Light Crystal .125 kg Dark Crystal .1 kg Choc Malt .1 kg Acid Malt 8g Warrior 60 min 12g Cascade 10 min 12g Centennial 10 min 12g Cascade cubed 12g Centennial cubed 1272 yeast from a starter OG 1043 IBU 30 I hope this is tasty ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 the saison 2 strain as it has less chance of stalling at that mid range.. Popping along quite happily at 17.5 ° today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 the saison 2 strain as it has less chance of stalling at that mid range.. Popping along quite happily at 17.5 ° today. That’s great news Ben. My word that is low. Ha ha ha Really looking forward to seeing how this one is in the glass. Keep us posted matey. Cheers Captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Hey Ben 10, When you get a fresh yeast packet for your saison’s do you do a starter or just direct pitch? Cheers, Captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 Hi Norris. With the smaller volume boils I really only need to do a separate hop steep once my total boil hop weight reaches approx. 140gms+, AND when I'm doing a long boil (60mins+). The long boil causes more liquid loss due to evaporation & combine this with a lot of hops that absorb wort, & you can end up with a significant loss in wort by the end of the boil, & what is then left to go into your fermenter. The wort we create through our lower volume boils is often of considerably higher gravity than that of a full volume brewer as we dilute this down using top-up water later when mixing it in the FV. If we lose too much of this higher gravity wort to hop absorption, it can, & will affect our starting OG. I did a few 200-300gm hop brews a few years back & the losses were significant in a single 7-8 litre boil. Enough so that I adopted the hop tea/steeping of hops in a separate pot to minimize those losses. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowbrew Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Did a Pale Ale this morning with some help from the Father in law 3kg Bairds Pale Malt 500g Munich 250g Light Crystal 70g Acid Malt 60 min mash at 67°C 10g Centennial 60 mins 20g Amarillo F/O 20g Centennial F/O 25g Amarillo Cube hop at 80°C 25g Centennial Cube hop at 80°C WLP001 from starter OG - 1.050 FG - 1.012 (approx) IBU - 34 EBC - 12 17 litre batch 75% Efficiency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris! Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Thank you Lusty. I went with a more conventional schedule to minimize the absorption and hopefully keep the IBUs intact. I needed to use some warrior anyways. It has been 23 hours and no airlock activity. I rehydrated in 85c water and let sit for 30 min and then stirred and added. I know MJ yeasts can be notorious slow starters but this is getting me worried. I have shaken the fermenter and it is sitting at 20c, in a water bath. I will drink some King River American IPA and check it before bed. Cheers and beers, Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 When you get a fresh yeast packet for your saison’s do you do a starter or just direct pitch? I direct pitch a low gravity one then harvest from that. Works for me for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain!! Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 When you get a fresh yeast packet for your saison’s do you do a starter or just direct pitch? I direct pitch a low gravity one then harvest from that. Works for me for now. I was thinking the same thing. Thanks matey Captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Made a Mid Strength Golden yesterday. Golden Promise Munich Some Wheat and some Caramalt Bittered with Columbus Flavoured with Amarillo Fermenting with US-05 Looks Golden Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Looks Golden How do you stop it from spilling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sansnom Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I got a MrBeer kit (keg, bottles, recipe kit) on clearance for $10. I decided to brew it up, it came with the "Canadian Blonde", but it doesn't look very blonde. The can is 3 months from expiry and I'm guessing it didn't get stored so well. I'll get 8 litres of something, still can't go wrong for $10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 On Monday night I brewed up 11 litres of a stout for winter. For fun I'm doing a kit + steeping grains version of an all-grain batch that turned out a really awesome stout (and that I still have half a case left of so will be able to compare). 1.7kg Coopers Australian Pale Ale kit 500g Coopers Light Dry Malt 500g Joe White Chocolate Malt 250g Joe White Roasted Barley Coopers Commercial Ale Yeast slurry By 6am Tuesday morning it was forming a nice krausen at 20° C and I have been holding it at this temperature since. I was interested to see how much the steeped roasted grains would contribute to the gravity, so I took a gravity sample after the boil (before dissolving in the LDM and kit). After a bit of scaling it turns out they add about 10 points to the 11 litre volume, giving an OG of 1.073. The APA kit starts at about 52 IBUs pre-fermentation when made up to 11 litres, so hopefully there is enough bitterness left by the time the beer is packaged. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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