Flat Beer

[Otto Von Blotto]

Not likely to freeze it. It would have to sit at below freezing temps for some time to do that. Beer freezes lower than water as well due to the alcohol in it.

I think Christina has done some hop teas at bottling time, but not sure how well it worked.

[Beerlust]

Hairy suggested it to me a while back with a brew I felt lacked a bit. So I added a small Centennial hop tea post ferment to it. I felt it worked well. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

[DonPolo]

Thanks guys I might give it a go. Put the galaxy , centennial and cascade in yesterday but now was thinking of going away until Sunday. Not  sure if I should take the galaxy out so it isn’t too long. I thought a hop tea with the current bag of galaxy or a new one might give more flavour. I understand the centennial and cascade should be ok 

[Hairy]

1 hour ago, Beerlust said:

Hairy suggested it to me a while back with a brew I felt lacked a bit. So I added a small Centennial hop tea post ferment to it. I felt it worked well. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

I have done it a few times previously with good results. I have done both a hop tea with water and with wort. You just need to make sure you allow time for it to ferment out if using wort.

I picked up some hops the other day; Mandarina Bavaria and Wai-iti. I have never used them before and was planning on doing a couple of single late hopped beers to get a feel for them. I might give the post ferment hop tea a go too.

[DonPolo]

The mystery deepens. Just tried the IPA batch I put down on 24 June. It was a basic kit and kilo TC IPA but with a carapils steep. PET bottle was hard and it was in the fridge for about 3 days. On opening there was a 'phut' but poured into the glass there was hardly any head and it quickly went as flat as a tack; more like an uncarbonated real ale. Tried a second glass (both glasses had been soaked in perc and rinsed in hot water three times). Second glass was worse.

Taste? Well I would need to have an experienced brewer help me out there. Not super unpleasant but a bit minerally. I've heard of bandaid flavours but I wouldn't go that far. It is also a bit difficult comparing because I haven't brewed a TC IPA for comparison. This was the batch you might remember that I said tasted a bit dusty when checking the SG. We put the taste down to some yeast that had found its way into the tap.

There were no visible signs of infection on the top of the brew but I was wondering if lack of head is an indication of infection?

[Otto Von Blotto]

I doubt it's infection. Infections usually result in really low FG readings and gushers because they ferment out more than the yeast do. Did the beer actually taste flat like no fizz in it, or simply lack any head?

[DonPolo]

On the initial pour it had a little bit of the coke fizziness I've experienced before. There were a few bubbles on the inside of the glass but then they dissipated and it was dead flat. The second glass was pretty much flat from the start. Very disappointing given the addition of carapils which worked so well for my mexican cerveza toucan..

[Worthog]

1 hour ago, DonPolo said:

The mystery deepens. Just tried the IPA batch I put down on 24 June. It was a basic kit and kilo TC IPA but with a carapils steep......

24 June is only 3 weeks ago. Is that enough time to brew, bottle, carbonate and expect good result?

I did an IPA but with a 300g Caramunich2 steep. It was lifeless out of the bottle after 2 weeks but blossomed into brilliant carb and lacy head at 6 weeks.

Also sub 20c consistent bottle carbonation during winter hurts good carbonation. I'm ensuring minimum 3 weeks at over 21c consistently ATM.

Cheers

Edited July 16, 2018 by Worthog

[Beerlust]

I'm with Worthog on this one. The beer is likely still very "green" & barely carbonated.

I'd get started on my next brew & leave this batch for another 3-4 weeks where it should have improved noticeably by then. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

[DonPolo]

OK guys thanks fingers crossed.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I'm with the others on that too, probably hasn't been bottled long enough. 

Carapils doesn't influence carbonation either, it's there really just for a bit of added body and foam retention. 

[DonPolo]

19 hours ago, Worthog said:

24 June is only 3 weeks ago. Is that enough time to brew, bottle, carbonate and expect good result?

I did an IPA but with a 300g Caramunich2 steep. It was lifeless out of the bottle after 2 weeks but blossomed into brilliant carb and lacy head at 6 weeks.

Also sub 20c consistent bottle carbonation during winter hurts good carbonation. I'm ensuring minimum 3 weeks at over 21c consistently ATM.

Cheers

Actually it was bottled on 24 June

[Otto Von Blotto]

"Put down"  means that you started the brew, i.e. mixed it all up in the fermenter and pitched the yeast. That's where the comments came from no doubt.

In answer to Worthog's question it is indeed possible to ferment, bottle and carbonate a batch in 3 weeks. If you get a nice, quick fermentation you could be bottling in 8 or 9 days, plus another 12-13 days in the bottle should be sufficient time for a reasonable amount of carbonation to occur. Doesn't mean the beer will necessarily be at its best yet, but carbonation should be there.

You said the bottles were hard, and there was pressure released upon opening. That should equate to carbonation. Just because there's no head or foam sticking around doesn't mean the beer is flat. If you're not getting the effervescence from the bubbles on your tongue when you drink it, then yes it's flat, but if that is present then it's not flat - it's just not holding a head for some reason.

In any case, I would give them another week or two and see how they are after that. You may find they improve somewhat.

[Worthog]

1 hour ago, DonPolo said:

Actually it was bottled on 24 June

Keep them "warm" DonPolo. I'm betting they'll come good.  Make sure to let us know.

Cheers

[DonPolo]

I will. They were in a laundry where the hot water tank is located. Even when we’re not home, when the door is closed I’m confident that it remains above 18 degrees. Will just see how it goes. 

[DonPolo]

2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

"Put down"  means that you started the brew, i.e. mixed it all up in the fermenter and pitched the yeast. That's where the comments came from no doubt.

Yes that was my mistake, I meant bottled.

[oldshep]

how long do you leave after bottleing can you drink it.

 

[The Captain!!]

13 minutes ago, oldshep said:

how long do you leave after bottleing can you drink it.

 

Depends Oldshep. 

Kit beer? I use to give my kit ales at least 4 weeks. 

My AG beers taste great after 3 weeks in the bottle. 

Recent stout has taken about 4 weeks to carb properly and is now tasting good. 

Plus all my beers are ales.

Lagers might carb a bit quicker in this weather.

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Whenever you like really, but as captain said they do take some time to be at their best. Just depends on the style.

[DonPolo]

Well I tried one last night and same result. A promising head for about 5 seconds then nothing. There were bubbles in the drink though I thought the carapils would have just given me some better aesthetics. That's after pretty much 5 weeks in the bottle.

The biggest disappointment was the taste. I'll try harder to pick the taste but it was very medicinal really. It reminded me of the guy who sad "this is really a rubbish beer ... I'll be glad when I've had enough!."

Now I don't know if this is a dud version of an IPA that Coopers is flogging or it is just me. It would be useful to be able to compare in person but perhaps someone could give me their views on what they got when they made a version of the Thomas Coopers IPA.

I mean if Coopers intends the brew to taste like this and I just don't like it, that is one thing. But if I'm getting another taste altogether that's another thing.

My second brew from the same can with the late hop of Centennial, Cascade and Galaxy was bottled on 15/7 so I'll wait another week or two before comparing.

[PaddyBrew2]

I’ve had no issues with the coopers IPA.  I have my kit version of the pirate left leftover as well as the ROTM Bavarian IPA which is tasting awesome after 4 weeks in the bottle. My only issue with it is the colour. It’s too amber to be an IPA. But taste wise it’s fine when amped up with grains and hops 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Medicinal could be chlorine related. Most likely from the water used to brew it. There are other phenols that can be confused with chlorophenols though, so it may not be that. If you didn't experience this flavor in other batches, it could be something else.

It sounds like the beer is not flat, it's simply not holding a head. The reason could be anything. You've done everything well enough that head retention shouldn't be an issue, but it may be beneficial to give your glass(es) a wash with detergent and then rinse thoroughly. There could be oils in them that the percarbonate isn't removing. I do that with mine every so often to keep on top of it.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Otto Von Blotto

[DonPolo]

I'll give the detergent a go. I've been studiously avoiding detergent/dishwasher since that was what I was supposed to do. I have only been using perc and hot water and then scrubbing out with one of those in sink brushes that I got from Aldi.

Definitely no lacing in the glass.

As far as the medicinal taste is concerned, I'll see how the next batch goes and compare. I've been using the same water for all my batches and it is definitely chlorinated but have not experienced this taste before.

Could it have been related to the initial temperature I held the brews at? You might remember that I misinterpreted info about brewing ales. I held the wort at 16-18C for the first four or five days thinking that this was the optimal temperature. Now I realise that it should be in the 21C-27C range for ales.

[Titan]

Brewing Ale should be between 18 & 21 not 21 to 27. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

It's probably not chlorine related, just a possibility. 

You're more likely to get flavors that taste like phenols at higher fermentation temps, not lower ones. 18-20 is the optimal temp for a clean tasting ale, not 21-27. Hold at 18 for a few days then raise it a few degrees. 

I do use percarbonate for my glassware almost all of the time, just occasionally wash them in detergent. As long as it's thoroughly rinsed it will be ok. I don't often get good lacing for some reason, but the head doesn't dissipate.