mixing not needed in fermentation vessel?

[PeterC1525230181]

Hi,

First post and I have just started my second brew ever (not counting an undergraduate microbiology practice class in 1983 and occasional suspension cultures of insect cells and bacteria but not yeast in a research lab).

I managed to do the amber ale kit that came with the craft kit without anything going wrong. I did stir up the ingredients in the fermentation vessel since that seemed an obvious thing to do before adding the yeast.

Now, for my second attempt, I am doing the 'Bird of Prey Amber Lager' recipe of the month. The recipe said "...Add the contents of the Bewitched Amber Ale to the FV. Fill the FV with cold water to the 10 litre mark - no need to stir..." So, I didn't stir - one less thing to do that might risk introducing an infection.

Now, after 24 hours, there is fermentation happening - foam, bubbles visible - looks to be going well except that the very dense concentrate from the can is sitting as a distinct layer on the bottom. It is hard to resist the temptation to open the lid and stir it in. Will that slowly get chewed up by the yeast and mix in/disappear?

 

[Happy Chappies]

Welcome!

 

And don't stress! The yeast will get through that. I know it seems a bit counter intuitive with the Craft FV to just dump without stirring, but it'll turn out fine.

[Me Old Mate]

I once read about yeast being like little mini-stirrers that just go absolutely mental with stirring everything they can, they must have little mini spoons or something even though they are just mushrooms that nobody can see. So they will probably go all the way down to the bottom to stir it for you. Kind of like sea monkeys but without the roller-coasters and rides and stuff.

[Beerlust]

I'm personally not a fan of the theory that poorly mixed or dissolved malts in solution ferment out as well as those that are mixed well, dissolved & dispersed more evenly into solution. Particularly with ale fermented beers.

 

Here's why.

 

I'm not a fan of nuggets of malt sitting at the bottom of the FV prior to pitching the yeast. It's not that hard to mix it thoroughly into an even solution & I question how lazy some are that cannot complete even this simple task to an adequate level.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Lusty.

[BlackSands]

I'm not a fan of nuggets of malt sitting at the bottom of the FV prior to pitching the yeast. It's not that hard to mix it thoroughly into an even solution & I question how lazy some are that cannot complete even this simple task to an adequate level.

I' date=' like many are not fans of condescending, self-righteous arrogance.[img']rolleyes[/img]

Just my 2 cents.

 

Will that slowly get chewed up by the yeast and mix in/disappear?

Most typically stir and dissolve but I imagine Coopers have a few clues on how to homebrew with their equipment so if they say not to bother then I'm sure it'll be fine.

 

 

[Phoenix76]

Well for what it's worth. I do mix my ingredients but don't go overboard. When adding water to my FV, I really let it splash in. I believe I get to advantages from this. One is proper aeration of my wort. The by product is that the ingredients get fairly well mixed.

 

If I can see some fairly large blobs of say me BE2 sitting around the bottom of the FV, I will get my big stirring spoon and try to mix it up. Yes I believe that the little yeast buddies will do their job and chew it all up, but I don't mind helping my little buddies. Actually, to me the aeration is the more important thing, which is why I pour in about 3lt of water at a time from a "great" height. This works very well.

 

Cheers

Bill

[PB2]

Will that slowly get chewed up by the yeast and mix in/disappear?

Yes! When using the little Craft FV (aka George )' date=' there is no requirement to stir.

 

Over the course of days, you will see the concentrated wort gradually become replaced with yeast sediment. Do not stir [img']biggrin[/img]

[BlackSands]

I believe I get to advantages from this. One is proper aeration of my wort...

...Actually' date=' to me the aeration is the more important thing, [/quote']I recently learnt that aeration is not such an important consideration if using dry yeasts. However, some manufacturers do seem to contradict each other on this:

 

...the package contains an adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and fatty acids' date=' and it is therefore unnecessary to aerate the wort.[/quote']

 

As the yeast is grown aerobically' date=' the yeast is less sensitive on first pitch. Aeration is recommended to ensure full mixing of the wort and yeast.[/quote']

 

 

[PeterC1525230181]

Now at 48 hours. The level of the dense concentrate at the bottom has very definitely reduced. I was reassured by the comments above and will leave it alone. I guess with yeast sitting directly on top of the dense layer, that layer will slowly go down as sugar diffuses up and gets fermented, reducing density and letting off gas. Above the dense layer the evolved gas is doing some stirring but not within the dense layer.

 

Nonetheless, it does just feel wrong to rely on diffusion. I think next time I will make sure I have bleached a long handled spoon and will try giving things a bit of a stir when about half the water is in before tipping in the rest.

 

Thanks, all.

[BlackSands]

I think next time I will make sure I have bleached a long handled spoon....

Just be wary about using bleach. While it'll satisfactorily deal to any bacteria etc on the spoon you really want to try avoid getting it anywhere near your beer!

 

Most people use a product called starsan. I keep some on hand in a spray bottle as it's very handy for these kind of situations.

 

[Beerlust]

Hello PeterC, & welcome to the forum. (a basic courtesy I should have extended in my previous post)

Nonetheless' date=' it does just feel wrong to rely on diffusion. I think next time I will make sure I have bleached a long handled spoon and will try giving things a bit of a stir when about half the water is in before tipping in the rest. [/quote']

Good onya PeterC.

 

Coopers dry malt extract is a spray dried malt extract. This type of dry malt is the hardest to dissolve as it is more prone to clumping than the other dry malt extract known as "band dried" malt extract.

 

The easiest way I've found to dissolve the dry malt extracts is to put 2-3 litres or so of cold water in your fermenter. I start with cold water because any steam coming from hot water causes the dry malt extract to clump as you're pouring it. At no great pace, pour your dry malt extract evenly over the water surface in the FV (to again reduce clumping), pick the FV up with both hands & with a swirling motion for about 15-20 seconds mix the extract into solution.

 

You may still have some clumps at this point. If so, now add some freshly boiled water & repeat the FV swirling process. The increased heat in solution will assist in dissolving any small clumps that may have remained. Easy.

 

If you are still having problems with dissolving the the spray dried malt after that, perhaps look to use the band dried malt extract that is far less prone to clumping, or use a liquid malt extract as a substitute.

 

Good luck with the brew.

I' date=' like many are not fans of condescending, self-righteous arrogance.

Just my 2 cents.[/quote']

....and many are fans of solutions. Quick solutions. And most have thick enough skin & can handle the raw truth about things without having to pretty things up & waste time debating non-related issues.

 

Well most people can.

 

Lusty.

[BlackSands]

I' date=' like many are not fans of condescending, self-righteous arrogance.

Just my 2 cents.[/quote']

....and many are fans of solutions. Quick solutions. And most have thick enough skin & can handle the raw truth

and of course you just the one enlightened enough to grace us all and deliver that "truth".

most have thick enough skin & can handle the raw truth about things ... Well most people can.

You just can't help yourself can you? You probably don't even no how incredibly arrogant and self-righteous you actually are. But I'm sure you're thick skinned enough to handle this raw truth.

 

 

[PeterC1525230181]

I think next time I will make sure I have bleached a long handled spoon....

Just be wary about using bleach. While it'll satisfactorily deal to any bacteria etc on the spoon you really want to try avoid getting it anywhere near your beer!

 

Most people use a product called starsan. I keep some on hand in a spray bottle as it's very handy for these kind of situations.

 

Thanks. I'll look into that. After a soaking bleach I would have given it (and everything else that was in contact with bleach) a thorough rinse in running hot water. Is that not enough?

 

This DIY at home stuff has me wishing I had pilfered a few things from the research lab where I worked before retiring. If I were doing this at work I could have started with everything autoclaved and thoroughly sterile, water included. The water could be very pure, better than ordinary distilled, and any desired mineral content could be added back in very accurately and easily. Putting it all together could have been in a laminar flow hood which is like a fume hood except that sterile air constantly flows outwards to prevent any contamination falling into containers while you have them open. Then, when faced with the question of stirring, I would have dropped in a sterile, teflon-coated magnetic stir bar and sat the whole FV on top of an automatic stirrer. And, I had access to a variety of temperature controlled rooms and large cabinets to choose from. On the other hand, if anyone had caught me making beer in the lab, it would probably have been a sacking offence.

[Me Old Mate]

I' date=' like many are not fans of condescending, self-righteous arrogance.

Just my 2 cents.[/quote']

....and many are fans of solutions. Quick solutions. And most have thick enough skin & can handle the raw truth

and of course you just the one enlightened enough to grace us all and deliver that "truth".

most have thick enough skin & can handle the raw truth about things ... Well most people can.

You just can't help yourself can you? You probably don't even no how incredibly arrogant and self-righteous you actually are. But I'm sure you're thick skinned enough to handle this raw truth.

 

 

 

omg IT'S ON,

 

over whether or not malt clumps ought to be stirred in

 

Lusty is right - people are lazier now than ever before. I'm one of them, and I didn't take offence.

 

merry christmas, kids

[Morrie]

Will that slowly get chewed up by the yeast and mix in/disappear?

Yes! When using the little Craft FV (aka George )' date=' there is no requirement to stir.

 

Over the course of days, you will see the concentrated wort gradually become replaced with yeast sediment. Do not stir [img']biggrin[/img]

 

PeterC - Welcome to the Coopers Forum mate. I think if you look into it a bit you will find that PB2 knows a thing or two about brewing, especially Coopers DIY products and their use.

 

Cheers - Morrie.

[PeterC1525230181]

Now, at almost 3 complete days, the layer of dense material from the liquid malt concentrate and the can is almost all gone. More precipitated material is sitting on top of that layer and fermentation still going. So, all is well, I think. Thanks again.

Maybe I won't bother with stirring next time, after all. Not through laziness but the less time spent with lids open and the fewer items that get put in, the less chance of contamination. Even in laboratory conditions I managed to contaminate insect cell culture suspensions a few times, though they are slower growing and more susceptible than yeast.

[Morrie]

We are all brewing with some level of contamination, so I guess the name of the game is to try and reduce it as much as possible through thorough sanitation and good practice. Also to try and achieve as fast a fermentation start up as possible, so the yeast gets a solid foothold over everything else.

[Beerlust]

I' date=' like many are not fans of condescending, self-righteous arrogance.

Just my 2 cents.[/quote']

If you expect me to sit back & allow you to publicly insult me on a personal level without some response, then you're very naive.

...and of course you just the one enlightened enough to grace us all and deliver that "truth".

No. Nor do I look at myself in that way. I'm happy to concede there are others on this forum that are more knowledgeable in some or all areas of home brewing beer than I.

 

In your time on the forum I have read many of your posts & shown interest in helping you solve some of the problems you have & in some cases are still experiencing with your home brewing. Other experienced home brewers on this forum have offered the same. On the back of that collective advice you seem reluctant to follow & in some cases except it as a resolution to your current question' date=' & then go off on some tangent theory that will most likely not resolve the problem you have asked for help with.

 

What you perceive as "arrogance" on my part with you in particular, is really comments by me built out of frustration at your [u']unwillingness[/u] to act on the advice offered by not only me but others with more knowledge & experience trying to help you with the problems & questions you pose.

 

Out of respect for the Coopers forum, & wishing not to create any further ill-feeling, I'll do my best not to comment any further directly to any of your posts. I'll leave that to others with more patience than I.

 

Contrary to your current beliefs, I do wish you well with your future brewing.

 

Lusty.