Max grain bill for 40l crown urn

[The Captain!!]

G'day all,

So I've now got my set up for all grain Biab brewing.

 

Picked up my new 40l crown urn and ready to brew. I have brewsmith 2 and have been reading and developing a few recipes. I will be no chilling in 25l cubes and have set up brewsmith for this batch size.

 

In a few of the post I've been reading max grain bill size would be up to 8 kg with just enough space left in the pot. I haven't put an all grain batch down yet and just wondered how much grain is too much for that size urn and batch volume?

 

Cheers,

Kirk.

[ben 10]

Without screwing with your efficiency 6 to 7 kg works well.

 

Any higher and it is a serious waste of grains.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I agree with Ben, I wouldn't go any higher than 7kg at once, which I have done a few times with stouts etc. It holds it alright but it's a PITA trying to get the bag out with that much grain in it. I doubt I'll put that much in at one again.

 

Next time I do a big beer like that I'm going to give re-iterated mashing a go, where you mash say half the grain bill in the strike water, then remove the bag and dispose of the grains and mash the other half in the wort from the first mash. It will add an extra hour or two to the brew day but should help get a better efficiency from the grains as well as make it a lot easier to remove the bag from the urn.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[The Captain!!]

Thanks legends.

 

Your input is greatly appreciated.

 

Have fun,

Kirk

[ben 10]

And to reiterate what Otto said, I have done it.

I threw 9kg at a RIS and had the shittest efficiency ever. Around 50%.

I then made a DIPA with a reiterated mash and got back to the high 60s.

[King Ruddager]

Most I've done is 6kg I think.

 

My magic numbers are 35L of water, 5.6kg grains, 60 min mash, 60 min boil, 27L in the cube.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Sounds about the same as mine except 36L water, a bit longer mash, and 75 minute boil. Probably end up with 27/28L in the cube but not all of it goes into the fermenter as I don't want all that sludgy shit at the bottom in there.

[Mark D Pirate]

I have pushed 7.5 kg in a single mash , i do a small sparge on my bag so was a pretty thick mash and still hit all my numbers though brewhouse eff % dropped to low 70s

20 litre buckets with a load of 3 mm holes stacked in another bucket with a tap is a simple and effective sparge rig and bumps my eff up a few points every batch

[headmaster]

I like the sound of that sparge rig Mark. Gave me an idea of how to upgrade my one. Should save me some time in the brew process.

 

My rig is based on a 38 litre crab cooker with recirc, checking notes for bigger bills, got 76% mash efficiency for 6.7kg, 72% for 8.6kg. Usually get 80-87% with less than 6kg grain.

 

Next time I make an RIS or barleywine, I'm going to try this reiterated mash technique, sounds really good.

[laxation]

What did you put in Beersmith for your equipment profile?

 

I just got an urn and am just getting the hang of beersmith, so not sure what to do with it

[Otto Von Blotto]

I get mid-high 80s mash efficiency with BIAB and no sparge at all, with "standard" grain bills around the 5-5.5kg mark. Which is why I've never bothered to sparge.

 

I have two profiles for my urn in Beersmith, one is set up for 21 litre batches and the other for 25 litre batches.

 

For the 21L batches, the pre-boil volume is 31L, boil off rate is 3L per hour (I don't use percentage because it varies with volume, litres per hour remains the same regardless), boil time is 75 minutes, trub loss is 3L and cooling loss is 1L. It's the same for 25L batches except the pre-boil volume moves up to 35L.

[Alpaca Brew]

Hello Everyone,

 

Two questions. I have a 30L SS pot and need to start doing recipes. Beersmith or Brewers Friend? What kind of cubes can I use for no chilling? I need to find some sort of plastic container that will hold at least 20 Liters.

 

Thanks,

 

Peggy

[Otto Von Blotto]

HDPE containers are what you need for no-chilling. Those square shaped water containers like this one of mine are the most popular. They have a triangle on the bottom with a 2 in it.

 

 

 

 

[Alpaca Brew]

Thanks Otto, I will look around and see what I can find. I need something that will not melt with the heat of the wort.

 

 

[ben 10]

I need something that will not melt with the heat of the wort.

 

 

HDPE won't. I use white jerry can style ones and find them good too.

You let the wort sit for a bit so it is not 100°c when you pour it into the "cube".

[panistefanin]

Hello! Very interesting topic, thank you raised it

 

192.168.o.1

[Mark D Pirate]

I pushed 12 kg for a RIS running 2 separate mashes through my old crown urn and old Cooper's FV 

Was a PITA balancing the temps and levels but I managed to hit all my numbers. 

Did a rye barleywine few weeks ago using reiterated mash and while it took over an hour longer it was very simple and kept effiency high 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Did my first reiterated mash on the weekend as noted in the brew day thread. I think the first mash went in about 8:30, and I didn't start boiling until after 2pm. But I did have to run out for a short while while the first lot of grains was draining so that added some unnecessary and unwanted time to the process. The grain bill was about 8.9kg; the first mash was 4.5kg of the base malt and nothing else, the second was the other 3kg of base malt plus all the specialty grains. Overall efficiency was up in the high 60s, which is pretty good for a grain bill about 4-4.5kg larger than my usual ones.

I'll definitely use the technique again, but not until I have a way of hoisting the bag other than lifting by hand. There was a lot of wort sitting on top of the grains when I pulled the second mash and it took ages to drain as well as made quite a mess. It would probably still make a bit of a mess with a hoist but at least that way it can hang and drain through the bottom instead of out the sides.

[The Captain!!]

I’ve done one reiterated mash and the beer was good but I’m pretty sure that’s the one that ended up on the front lawn! Ha ha ha

The next one I’m planning will be a bourbon vanilla imperial porter that might be aged in a barrel. It’ll be for next winter.

Captain

[porschemad911]

To me that's the problem with single vessel systems. It may be overkill, but I reckon a good rule of thumb for mash tun size is 2x your boil kettle (assuming your boil kettle size has been chosen to fit your batch size of choice with allowances for boil off and a bit of headroom). That'll let you fit heaps of grain and then do a second partigyle batch fairly easily if you want to use all that grain efficiently. 

Cheers, 

John

[Otto Von Blotto]

Agreed for making big OG beers the single vessel systems aren't the best. They're fine for "normal" strength beer though. 

It all depends on what your main brews are. Mine are all around the same sort of OG, I might make one or two big ones per year. For me it's not worth getting a separate mash tun for one or two batches a year, but for those making a fair few big beers it would be for sure.