Dry hop or hop tea & when to add?

[HBNSumdger1525230083]

Hops question.

 

I want to add some hops to my next brew and wondered whether you lovely lot had any tips on best practice and whether dry hopping or adding a hop tea would provide the best results.

 

At what stage would it be best to add a hop tea and the pros and cons of such?

 

If dry hopping, is it best to introduce after/close to FG?

 

I only really want aromatics for this one so if the addition of a hop tea is looking like the way to go I'll add it to a little boiling water for a minute at the most and then steep for say 30.

 

Could the tea be added to the fv after cold crashing just prior to bottling in order that the captured flavour/aroma would still be pretty fresh after 4/5 weeks in the bottle?

 

Cheers.

[Kairi]

Hi HBNSumdger,

I'm new to the game as well. I have done a couple of hop tea batches seeped for 10 mins then added to the FV. I found that you could definitely notice the aroma but it did start reduce after 4 weeks.

 

Dry hopped my first batch yesterday after 5 days in the fermenter with SG at 1017. I wanted to make sure that the yeast were still producing CO2 so they could replace any that may have escaped while the lid was off. I will now leave the hops there until bottling. Why did i choose 5 days, because a mate told me to do it that way.

 

I don't think there are any hard and fast rules for dry hopping just a matter of preference and what is considered trendy at the time.

 

Here is a link to a BYO write up that i found helpful. It was from 2003 but should still be relevant. There is also a like at the bottom of the story to another article.

 

BYO Dry hop

 

[ChristinaS1]

Hi HBN. Wow, this is a big topic. Hop teas can be done at different temperatures, and can be done before fermentation, in which case some of the flavour and aroma are blown off or changed by the yeast during fermentation, or at bottling time, when they mostly add aroma. Dry hopping can also be done at different times, like at the tail end of fermentation, after fermentation, or during cold crashing, and for different lengths of time. I find dry hopping provides a more resinous taste. Dry hopping can also be affected by whether you contain them in something or add them loose, commando style. There is some evidence that, contrary to popular belief, dry hopping can also increase bitterness. Here is a link to Scott Janish's site which has enough information about hopping to make your head spin:

 

http://scottjanish.com/increasing-bitterness-dry-hopping/

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[HBNSumdger1525230083]

A very interesting read. I have added the link to my library. Thanks again Christina

 

In layman's terms, even without boiling the hops, steeping teas and dry hopping can clearly also add bitterness in addition to aroma albeit smoother and possibly less distinct.

 

I did read another thread on the forum this morning in which you had also chipped in with some valuable comments on the Hops subject.

 

I think for the one I've currently got in the FV I'm going to add a cascade hop tea after cold crashing a little while before bottling and see how this turns out.

 

Cheers, Andy.

[joolbag]

i'm yet to try adding a hop tea at bottling time but am really curious to give it a go one time. Keep us posted on your hop schedule and if you notice a fresher and longer lasting aroma with a hop tea when bottling.

[Otto Von Blotto]

That appears to be where the lines get blurred... dry hopping doesn't add isomerised alpha acids (IBUs) because the hops need to be in water or wort above about 80C for that to occur. However, if you've ever chewed on a hop pellet you'll know how bitter they taste and it seems odd to me that this wouldn't end up in the final beer to some degree, so it does make sense that dry hopping would add a little bit of bitterness even if it isn't adding IBUs.

[BlackSands]

Here's a couple of interesting facts from the 2013 Wolfe thesis on dry hopping:

 

"...pellet hops were nearly fully extracted after 24 hours"

In other words one day is adequate when dry hopping with pellets, though I must admit I tend to err on the side of caution and give it a bit longer. Looking at the graphs, longer than six days and you actually start to lose a-acid concentration.

 

"As expected, a-acid concentration did not correlate to increased bitterness

even though significant extraction occurred. A previous study from our lab has shown

that alpha acid concentrations as high as 28 mg/L in beer were not detected as being

bitter by beer drinking consumers as well as a trained panel."

 

 

 

[Beerlust]

http://scottjanish.com/increasing-bitterness-dry-hopping/

I read the article & am not convinced of that opinion. And it is just an opinion' date=' despite links to studies done back in the 1950's & 60's. There are a lot of possibly's, potentially's, & appears to be's in that article.

 

The article primarily centres around apparent oxidized alpha acids known as "humulinones" & their ability to create what it is stated as "bitterness" in a beer when dry hopping. I am accepting of the notion that dry hopping can add aspects that can [b']resemble[/b] bitterness, but I am not accepting that it is true bitterness as attained only in the isomerisation of alpha acids in the boil. I feel there are a some traits that present through dry hopping in some scenarios that mimic bitterness, but actually aren't bitterness as such at all.

 

So how much humulinones are actually in hops? Baled hops contain less humulinone then pelletized hops' date=' about 0.3% for baled to approximately 0.5% or more with pellets...[/quote']

If these alpha acids actually contribute to real bitterness, then you'd need an absolute @#$% load of hops in a dry hopping situation to create anything noticeable, thus (for the most part) it really is an impractical ideal & direction to get absorbed in (IMHO).

 

If this was a practical ideal, we would have seen this in a commercial/craft beer already.

 

Each to their own though.

 

Lusty.

[Titan8]

Ive done both and this is my impression. Dry hop at start of ferment very subtle bitterness and aroma. Dry hop 3 days in, same hop and qty bitterness and aroma more pronounced. Hop tea same hop same qty 10 min boil initial ferment very pronounce bitterness and aroma. In each case 60g mosaic same beer in all 3 cases. In actual fact batch 3 was so intense it was the beer that lasted longest in the keg.

[Beerlust]

Ive done both and this is my impression. Dry hop at start of ferment very subtle bitterness and aroma. Dry hop 3 days in' date=' same hop and qty bitterness and aroma more pronounced. Hop tea same hop same qty 10 min boil initial ferment very pronounce bitterness and aroma. In each case 60g mosaic same beer in all 3 cases. In actual fact batch 3 was so intense it was the beer that lasted longest in the keg. [/quote']

I've done plenty of different scenarios, with plenty of hop varieties.

 

IMHO there are other factors at play as to how these particular hop characters present & their intensity. Those most notable are yeast used, original & final gravity of the wort, & the makeup of the malt grist.

 

Throw the same hop bill (dry hop or otherwise) into a different malt grist &/or ferment it with a different yeast strain, & the end result & impact in this zone will be drastically, yes DRASTICALLY different (IMHO).

 

The notice-ability of hop influence is built on the back of malt selections in development of the wort & how a chosen yeast develops them. I admire the thought process of those that look at other angles that skirt around established practices, but in this case I feel again for the most part, it's an area hardly worth investing time & resources in proving on a home brewing level.

 

If anyone feels like brewing a purely dry hopped beer & after tasting it they feel there is some merit in the ideal, then please post your results & conclusions here.

 

I won't hold my breath though.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[BlackSands]

If anyone feels like brewing a purely dry hopped beer & after tasting it they feel there is some merit in the ideal' date=' then please post your results & conclusions here.[/size']

 

While not 'dry-hop only', I am curious to try a no-boil brew one day; hops added during the mash e.g.

[Beerlust]

If anyone feels like brewing a purely dry hopped beer & after tasting it they feel there is some merit in the ideal' date=' then please post your results & conclusions here.[/size']

 

While not 'dry-hop only', I am curious to try a no-boil brew one day; hops added during the mash e.g.

Two different things.

 

Traditionally the mash then goes into a boil. Mash hopping is just an alternate method of First Wort hopping (IMHO). Although I've never done it, on the surface the steep time-frame is the only thing that differs, & that extended time-frame of extraction of hop oils & whether it is in anyway beneficial is certainly debatable.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[ChristinaS1]

If anyone feels like brewing a purely dry hopped beer & after tasting it they feel there is some merit in the ideal' date=' then please post your results & conclusions here.

 

I won't hold my breath though. [img']tongue[/img]

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.[/size]

 

Actually Scott Janish has made a beer with no hot side hops. His hop schedule was:

 

28 grams each Citra and Amarillo added to fermenter (pre-fermentation hops)

56 grams Citra and 56 grams Amarillo added at day 4 of fermentation (capped fermentation at this time)

56 grams Citra and 56 grams Amarillo added to the serving keg (left at room temperature overnight and into the keezer the following day)

 

http://scottjanish.com/zero-hot-side-hopped-neipa-hplc-testing-sensory-bitterness/

 

His findings? The IBUs ended up testing at 76.9IBUs in the lab. However, the bitterness was different than a traditionally hopped double IPA.

 

1.) "Smoother" in the sense that it doesn’t linger in your mouth like a highly bittered double IPA but,

2.) Harsher and more vegetal bitterness, and

3.) (surprisingly) less aroma than a similar beer with a whirlpool addition.

 

He wasn't crazy about the results.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Otto Von Blotto]

IBUs are solely the measurement of iso-alpha acids in a beer, which as we know are produced by either boiling or steeping hops above 80C to isomerise the alpha acids, it doesn't occur at fermentation temperatures. I'm curious as to how a beer with no hops boiled or steeped and therefore no iso-alpha acids in it measured 76.9IBUs.

 

Maybe they do isomerise very very slowly at low temps, but I've yet to see any evidence of this.

[BlackSands]

Two different things

I know... which is why I said:

While not 'dry-hop only'...

 

Actually Scott Janish has made a beer with no hot side hops. His hop schedule was:

 

28 grams each Citra and Amarillo added to fermenter (pre-fermentation hops)

56 grams Citra and 56 grams Amarillo added at day 4 of fermentation (capped fermentation at this time)

56 grams Citra and 56 grams Amarillo added to the serving keg (left at room temperature overnight and into the keezer the following day)

I guess one down-side to this technique is the relatively large amount of hops required.

 

 

 

[Beerlust]

If anyone feels like brewing a purely dry hopped beer & after tasting it they feel there is some merit in the ideal' date=' then please post your results & conclusions here.

 

I won't hold my breath though. [img']tongue[/img]

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.[/size]

 

Actually Scott Janish has made a beer with no hot side hops. His hop schedule was:

 

28 grams each Citra and Amarillo added to fermenter (pre-fermentation hops)

56 grams Citra and 56 grams Amarillo added at day 4 of fermentation (capped fermentation at this time)

56 grams Citra and 56 grams Amarillo added to the serving keg (left at room temperature overnight and into the keezer the following day)

 

http://scottjanish.com/zero-hot-side-hopped-neipa-hplc-testing-sensory-bitterness/

 

His findings? The IBUs ended up testing at 76.9IBUs in the lab. However, the bitterness was different than a traditionally hopped double IPA.

 

1.) "Smoother" in the sense that it doesn’t linger in your mouth like a highly bittered double IPA but,

2.) Harsher and more vegetal bitterness, and

3.) (surprisingly) less aroma than a similar beer with a whirlpool addition.

 

He wasn't crazy about the results.

Of course he wasn't, nor am I the least bit surprised by the results.

IBU is a figurative number used to roughly calculate the bitterness of a beer recipe according to standard practices of bittering a beer. The means mentioned to create bitterness in the beer certainly don't fall into a "standard" category for bittering beer, thus the IBU calculation used to create the IBU for beers bittered this way should be completely ignored. I'll say it again, SHOULD BE COMPLETELY IGNORED!

 

Seriously, WTF are "not hot side hops"?? Are they steeped hops? Or are they something less & past the boil phase before added?? It's a variable non-descriptive wank term to me.

His findings? The IBUs ended up testing at 76.9IBUs in the lab. However' date=' the bitterness was different than a traditionally hopped double IPA.[/quote']

Well...well...well. No surprise there. Given modern hopping techniques, quoted IBU's tell you very little in terms of expected bitterness at the glass given the accuracy particularly in some styles.

 

There are so many holes in this donut it's amazing there is anything factually left to eat.

 

 

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

As I said in my previous post, IBUs are the measure of isomerised alpha acids in the beer, so if there is no isomerisation of alpha acids going on due to no hot side hops then how did they end up in the beer?

[ChristinaS1]

IBUs are solely the measurement of iso-alpha acids in a beer' date=' which as we know are produced by either boiling or steeping hops above 80C to isomerise the alpha acids, it doesn't occur at fermentation temperatures. I'm curious as to how a beer with no hops boiled or steeped and therefore no iso-alpha acids in it measured 76.9IBUs.

 

Maybe they do isomerise very very slowly at low temps, but I've yet to see any evidence of this.[/quote']

 

Have you read the article Kelsey? It also surprised Scott and the lab. There is obviously some unknown process at work, which they had a couple of theories about, but no solid answers.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[ChristinaS1]

Seriously' date=' WTF are "not hot side hops"?? Are they steeped hops? Or are they something less & past the boil phase before added?? It's a variable non-descriptive wank term to me. [img']lol[/img]

 

I think it is pretty clear from his hop schedule: they were all added after the wort had been chilled to pitching temp. They were not steeped in warm/hot wort (or water).

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Beerlust]

Seriously' date=' WTF are "not hot side hops"?? Are they steeped hops? Or are they something less & past the boil phase before added?? It's a variable non-descriptive wank term to me. [img']lol[/img]

 

I think it is pretty clear from his hop schedule: they were all added after the wort had been chilled to pitching temp. They were not steeped in warm/hot wort (or water).

Sounds like "dry hopping" to me.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Indeed, it says only 2IBUs were contributed from iso-alpha acids, now given that's what IBUs actually measure, there are only 2IBUs in the beer, not 76.

 

One International Bitterness Unit is equivalent to 1 milligram of iso-alpha acid per liter of beer. That's it, they don't measure perceived bitterness or un-isomerised acids.