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Little Creatures Pale Ale Clone


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Popped another of these today,

 

Words cant describe how frustrated I am, it smells & tastes like sweet apples or cider.

 

Wouldnt go as far as to say it tastes crap but I wouldnt give it to anyone else!

 

Its perfectly clear, no bottle sediment (which there was little of) was disturbed when I popped the cap or poured the beer, its not overly gassy, its not gassing off in the glass & is holding a head, managed to pour 95% of the bottle before just the very slightest of sediment was floating out.

 

The ones I tried the other day where 500ml bottles which I filled 1st, this was a 750 which was the last 50% of the beer, there is a chance it could be the last bottle, previously Ive marked the caps 3, 2, 1 so I know not to share with anyone just in case but not this time as the bulk prim bucket was so clear.

 

Can only hope that there aren't 2 many more like it.

 

Any thoughts or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

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It could just be that particular bottle, but it sounds like acetaldehyde. It exists in all beer but sometimes there is too much of it and it makes it taste like green apples or cider. The first page of this here fault guide explains it in more detail as well as causes.

 

As for the Morgans American ale yeast, it could well be the same strain anyway but if it's not it will still do the job so that will be fine. cool

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

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Country living does have its down sides, 40km round trips to town now 3days a week for the kids & 100km round trips for me to get to work but heh ho.

 

Right so the American yeast version is under way, I pitched at 18.5'c, within 1hour the FV has got to 20'c so guess shes alive biggrin

 

Just to confirm, with this American style yeast I need to keep above 18'c to keep it from throwing esters so 3 days at 18 then up to 21'C?

 

Currently got the ink bird SP = 18, Heat on at 17, cooling on at 20.

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Currently got the ink bird SP = 18' date=' Heat on at 17, cooling on at 20.[/quote']If I was you I'd tape that temp probe to the side of the fermenter, insulated under foam or something, and set the difference much less. There's no use measuring the ambient temp because you really don't know what to have it sitting at to keep the brew at the desired temperature.

 

The timing of the temp rise is the same as what I do though yeah, start at 18C and leave it there for 3 full days, then raise the controller to 21C and let it come up. It then sits up there until a few days after FG is reached.

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Oh, I thought a couple of degrees was tight enough but it the heater / fridge wont be on & off like a yo-yo then Ill close it up to +/-0.3'c.

 

On the last brew, had a 750 & 500ml last nt, 750's being bottled from the 2nd half of the bulk prime, the 750 wasn't quite as strongly tainted as the previous one & the 500 was again different. The 500 had ZERO sediment in the bottle!

 

They both tasted a little apple like but certainly had the burnt toffee flavor & over all where just a dry bitter tone, I might be to used to drinking hopped beers like Stoke, Monoliths APA etc of late.

 

Do you think a month or 2 bottle conditioning will help things?

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It probably is, but the longer the fridge has to stay on to bring the temp back down from the high point, the further it may drop below the set temp. It makes more sense to me that if you have something like a fridge that can be used to keep the temperature in a very narrow window, to take advantage of it.

 

And no, it won't come on and off like a yo-yo for two reasons. One is that the temp controllers usually have a delay built into them to protect the fridge compressor, so that if the temperature rises too fast the fridge doesn't come on straight away. I have my delay set to the longest I can get it which I think is about 7 or 8 minutes on the STC model. It's quite useful if I open the fridge straight after it turns off to do something with the brew and it warms up to that 0.3C mark quickly (knee on the temp probe or something). Usually when I close the fridge again it starts dropping without it being on, so when the delay is up there's not much further to drop.

 

The other reason is that the temperature of that much liquid doesn't change very quickly; if you were measuring the ambient air then you wouldn't set it to 0.3C because it would just not work, but when measuring the temp of the brew itself it can be done easily.

 

I have a yeast starter in my brew fridge at the moment being chilled in preparation for pitching today, but in this case I'm just measuring the ambient in the fridge with the difference set to 3C.

 

I think acetaldehyde can be aged out of beer but I will have to check that. In any case it won't hurt to leave the bottles to condition for a month or two and see if they do improve.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

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Ill have a read over that when Im on Night shift this weekend.

 

Could be aeration during bulk priming or bottling.

 

On a lighter note;

 

19225150_10154507709465896_4977961179985866092_n.jpg?oh=414629a0a080fb36036017761da2549e&oe=59DA8076

 

BREW ON biggrin

 

How old is that Fermenter Mike

 

It could just be the angle of the pic but it doesn't look clean. I haven't much experience with the old type of FV though' date=' my two DIY look as good now as the day they were born.

 

How did you go with your other bottles, would be good to know if it was just one infected bottle, and whether you hit the LCPA script.

 

Cheers & good luck with the new brew

Scottie

[i']Valley Brew[/i]

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Ive no Idea how old it is, I got it 2nd hand about 3 years ago, there is staining on it but its clean inside, not sure what has caused it but it wont come off!, the set I got it with had used a light bulb as heating so possibly UV damage. I wash out with dish soap & hot water after each use, rinse then spray the inside with ethanol before I put it away, then I rinse with hot water & wipe the inside with Sodium metabisulfite & again rinse before I make the next brew.

 

Like the idea of a conical FV but cant justify the cost right now, the Fermentasaurus is prob a bit to pricey & dont see me harvesting yeast or pressure fermenting anytime soon, the FastFerment 30L look good value as do the BrewDemon Big Demon 8gal, but again $200 for a conical is a big jump, Christmas maybe,,,

 

Read the last few posts re the out come with the previous batch.

 

As for LCPA likeness, going by there description - "A hop driven Pale Ale bursting with flavour and aroma. Full-bodied yet refreshing, with a bitter finish. Flavours being- Hop Resin, Citrus, Nectarine, Burnt Toffee"

 

Bursting with Flavour = Nope.

Full bodied = Maybe but not sure its in a good way!

Bitter finish = Hell yes.

Hop resin = No idea what that tastes like!

Citrus = Nope.

Nectarine = The partially secondary fermented bottle, defiantly had some stone fuit undertones, the 3 since had none.

Burnt Toffee = Burnt Toffee Apple yes, along with caramel

 

Also to note theirs is a lighter pale coloured beer, this is a dark amber.

 

Over all I prob wouldn't recommenced this brew, possible acetaldehyde issue aside, it lacks the layers of flavour or stand out taste of even a simple Hop Slam IPA or Coopers Pacific summer ale.

 

Hope it comes round after a few weeks / months on the shelf but cant see it "bursting with flavour" either way.

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Oh' date=' I thought a couple of degrees was tight enough but it the heater / fridge wont be on & off like a yo-yo then Ill close it up to +/-0.3'c.

[/quote']

 

This colder weather in Sydney has seen my heat belt operating. BUT it is too efficient and seems to bring the brew up to temp and then keep rising. then the fridge kicks in. so it is up and down like a yo-yo for me. I have it set to +/- 0.3C and 5 mins between cycles.

 

I think I will aim to heat the environment rather than the brew. so might try and dangle the heat belt in fridge rather than having it wrapped around fermenter. I should've just bought a 5m reptile heating belt like most other ppl have in their brew fridge.

 

Thermostat is on the FV under insulating foam.

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I'd probably be keeping dish soap as far away from any brewing equipment as possible... it does have the potential to kill the head. Sodium percarbonate is better or if you can't get the pure stuff, any unscented nappy soaker will do the job.

 

Correct Jools, even though we are not measuring the temp of the air in the fridge, this is what we want to be controlling to keep the brew temp where we want it, so definitely better off having the heat source off the fermenter, just as the cooling source is not in direct contact with it. The ambient temp can really do whatever it likes as long as the brew temp is kept where desired.

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So had a quick Google,

 

Seems that is caused by a few things, (in keeping with Ottos link);

 

(BJCP exam site)

"Acetaldehyde is normally reduced to ethanol by yeast during the secondary fermentation, but oxidation of the finished beer may reverse this process, converting ethanol to acetaldehyde. Elevated levels are generally present in green beer or if the beer is prematurely removed from the yeast. It can also be a product of bacterial spoilage by Zymomonas or Acetobacter. It can also be the result of inadequate wort oxygenation"

 

Honestly cant see how its under fermented, was a week after stable SG before I cold crashed for another week then primed & bottled. Could well be oxygenation at priming or bottling but I was careful not to allow the beer to flow fast or splash /swirl etc.

 

Apparently extended conditioning at temperatures can help reduce the effect but if its bacterial it will only ever get worse. Ottos link also confirms this;- " Scavenging of acetaldehyde by yeast is increased by promoting vigorous late primary and secondary fermentation, by conditioning at warmer temperatures"

 

Cold crashing & bulk priming has meant that most bottles have almost no sediment / yeast present. Time will tell I guess, the bottles are in the brew fridge with my next Brew currently at 18'c, going to 21 in 2 days time, would it hurt to leave them in there for another 2/3 weeks at the higher temp?

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My heater is a Brew Tech pad screwed to the side of the fridge so not touching.

 

Probe was also taped to the side of the bottles & covered for conditioning.

 

0.3'C seems to be going fine, no sign of the fridge needing to run & does take a while for the FV to rise & fall even by just 0.3.

 

No more dish soap, ta rolleyes

 

Out of interest, any issue with using food grade 70% solution ethanol spray as a sanitizer along with the Metabisulfite?

 

 

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Yeah, it does take a while even to change that small amount. When I first set up my brew fridge I figured it would but I tested it anyway just to see how big the difference really was, firstly with the probe dangling in the fridge and then with it sitting in a 2L bottle of water. It definitely changed a lot slower in the water.

 

I think something like Starsan would probably be a better alternative to ethanol spray (what's in the other 30%?), but it would probably still work fine. Maybe someone who knows a bit more than me about those things can help there. smile

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

 

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The other 30% is chlorinated water, if you don't dilute it then it changes to a gas almost as soon as you spray it.

 

I work at a Dairy factory & we recently changed from Ethanol to "Ethasan" TM which is Ecolabs Ethanol based (!) cleaner so the old stuff was up for grabs!

 

I only really use it for a quick spray on say the lid seal of tap threads etc after Ive handled it & inside the FV when im going to store it to help reduce the chance of bugs growing.

 

Effectively it should gas off & once dry the surface would be food grade clean, if there was any liquid residue it might help with the ABVlol

 

I also have some Hospital grade disinfectant gel that can be used diluted to clean down, AKA super-duper bleach, only used this on the inside of the fridge though.

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