Fermentasaurus

[None1525230128]

Hey brewers!

 

Just came across this post while researching the Fermentasaurus...

 

I'm second time "new" to DIY brewing (my last attempt was about 12 years ago), so I'm thinking starting fresh again with this umm... intriguing device.

 

I'm in Melbourne, and right now it's nowhere near 16 deg (prob won't be for a while!), so how do you keep the Fermentasaurus warm? I can see the standard heat bands are 900mm long which won't be enough to wrap around the barrel (perimeter approx 1100mm). Pads are obviously a no go for this set up.. any suggestions?

 

Also, as a noob, should I bother with the Pressure Kit or save that option for later?

 

Cheers!

 

[headmaster]

Best way to keep it warm would be to put it in a fridge and warm the air inside the fridge.

 

A fridge only fridge would be best, i.e. no freezer.

 

Your fermentasaurus dimensions mean you can't use a bar fridge sized unit unfortunately.

 

Using a fridge also means you can cold crash, and also run full temp controlled fermentation, handy for summer as well. You would need a temp controller like an STC1000 or inkbird temp controller and a heat source, I use a 5M reptile heater cord with a 12V computer fan to assist the circulation of air inside the fridge.

 

You could try and keep it warm with belts, but I reckon you really need something with a larger contact area if in a very cold environment. At a pinch, an electric blanket might work, but pretty messy, and internal beer temp hard to know, also very inefficient as a lot of the heat will simply escape to the environment. If you could find a giant styrofoam box, that would work too, but I have never seen one that big.

 

 

 

[None1525230128]

Answered my own question :)

[Fancy a Cheeky Pint?]

Thanks for all the advise fella's. I have finally put down a brew using the Fermatasaurus. It became obvious that I need to rethink and refine my processes!

Transferring the mix from large saucepan to the fermenter: I purchased a 5 litre jug and strained the mx into the jug and then poured into the fermenter! Flaming dribbled like a bad tea pot and I then had to repair the kitchen before her in doors noticed!

It wasn't long before I realised that I needed to move it to it's final spot behind and on top of the bar and then top up with water. It wouldn't of been much fun trying to move it after filling!

 

I also noticed before I got started that the silicon tube had split where it connects to the float so I had to shorten it a little more. I hope that doesn't happen every brew or it won't be long before I need a new tube.

 

Anyway, all done now and in situ with the spunding valve fitted and set to 10psi. Gate valve open and looking forward to the results.....

 

 

[sminchnz]

Hi guys,

 

I'm halfway through my first brew with a Fermentasaurus and was hoping someone could help me avoid repeating this afternoon's adventure. I've been fermenting under pressure and wanted to remove the yeast that's dropped out, so attached the bottle, filled it up, closed the valve, and then removed the bottle... I reckon maybe half of the bottle's contents stayed put, and the rest went all over the basement. ALL over.

 

I'm sure I did something wrong, but I don't know what. Does anyone have any suggestions? I need to do this again (I think I got about a third of the yeast, and still want to dry hop too) but am keen to avoid the cleanup :D

 

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

 

Stephen

[Fancy a Cheeky Pint?]

Hi guys' date='

 

I'm halfway through my first brew with a Fermentasaurus and was hoping someone could help me avoid repeating this afternoon's adventure. I've been fermenting under pressure and wanted to remove the yeast that's dropped out, so attached the bottle, filled it up, closed the valve, and then removed the bottle... I reckon maybe half of the bottle's contents stayed put, and the rest went all over the basement. ALL over.

 

I'm sure I did something wrong, but I don't know what. Does anyone have any suggestions? I need to do this again (I think I got about a third of the yeast, and still want to dry hop too) but am keen to avoid the cleanup :D

 

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

 

Stephen[/quote']

 

Hi Stephen,

Like you Mate, I'm still on my first brew with the Fermentasaurus so still learning how things go with it but as for the collection bottle, I have the bottle connected at all times with the valve open allowing the c**p to settle in the bottle. I then close the valve and put a baking tray under it before unscrewing it which prevents the clean up. I then clean and sanitise both the bottle and inside the valve using a spray bottle and then purge the bottle with CO2 before re-attaching it and opening the valve again.

If I was going to dry hop I would add no more than 25g of hops to the bottle before purging with CO2, re-attaching and opening the valve. (I read somewhere that 25g was probably about the limit of hops for the bottle at any one time, I may be wrong)

Hope this helps

Cheers

 

[blink471]

Hi all.... I as well have just done my first brew using Fermentasauris. Was wondering about how this would work. Brew normally not under pressure but using airlock... and then when done, you connect your pressure lid with gas in and putting a serving pressure into the fermenter... and then transfer into a keg? Its not using the barb on the bottom as you still get some sediment... but using the floating pick up and take the beer from the top. This way the beer is not pre carbonated if you want to use bottles, or then put int o a keg. Use a beer line with liquid out from the lid and maybe an inline valve to control flow. Would this work?

Thanks.. Im just learning the best way to use it too.

 

[Daz1525230139]

Spot on mate. My next brew will be full pressure ferment without spunding. Im figuring that at 18 deg at end of ferment i should have fully carbed beer. All experimental of course.

Has anyone tried bottling their carbonated beer, (via natural fermentation build up with high spunding setting, or, chilled with several days top pressure from cylinder), and stepping down to a fine line, (2-3mmID), fill tube for the bottling? We used to get tank samples that were almost headless from chilled pressure vessels at my old brewery this way, but not sure if bottling speed would become a factor at home. The colder the better in this case and prechilled bottles would help too! New to 'the club' & 1st "Armageddon IPA" just about finished Ferm after a RoboBrew purchase too!! I'm EXCITED!

BTW, did 2x 50g dry hops & found that 'massaging' the collection pot got it all moving/mixing/degassed well after it had hydrated. Not sure if doing this will harm the bottle integrity or future sterility as there are some shallow creases, (not opaque but 'feelable'), in its walls now. Will email KegKing re this query soon.

[Daz1525230139]

Mind if I ask you Fermentasaurus owners a few (lot) questions' date=',,

 

- Can you only dry hop & bulk prime with the bottle if you are pressure brewing? No but you would release pressure OR, they sell or could make lids for a Std PET bottle for finings/hop tea to be pressurised in via the dip tube. Just over-pressure the de-Oxygenated PET with its additions in it & plug onto the dip tube outlet

 

- Read that 50g MAX of hop pellets can be hopped at a time or the Valve / throat block as it swells?Haven't tried a big dry hop addition "massage" the pot if there's a blockage/gas lock. Am going to ask Keg King about bottle integrity re this however.

 

- Also read that if you use a lot of dry hops then removing them from conical FV's can be difficult as they can block the throat & require poking through with a long spoon or Rod from above? Again don't know

 

-Why would you want a sample / racking tap when they supply a hose tail to screw into the base Valve?I presume because it take it from above the level of the trub Yes, some cone bits will drop as it MT's so reduction of solids.

 

- If you don't Pressure ferment would there be a problem with simply dropping dry hops / bulk prime in from the top cap? Don't reckon so. Agreed but any opening if not purged of air/sterile can introduce air or bugs.

 

- I have read they can be a pain to clean if the brew foams a lot as you cant get your hand inside to wipe out?I can fit my hand in, cleaning is easy

Their claim is it's HD PET so very small pores & Oxygen impervious means less odor retention &

sites for ongoing infection chances.

 

- Why use a floating scavenging tube? - if you are removing the Trub / yeast / hops and so will bottle I guess 99% of the beer, why not just use a hose & clamp / second valve on the bottom Valve & not have the contamination risk or cleaning from the tube / float & chain? It's a great method, I transfer under pressure and can leave any trub behind

 

And in return, might help some of you to know,

 

- It seems to be normal that not all the trub or hops will come out in one collection, multiple collections with 24hrs rest in between are suggested by the maker,

 

- Apparently a 1ltr SODA STREAM bottle has the same thread & pressure rating so can be used if you want a bigger collector bottle. NICE, ta. Only issue is the height if on it's stand on a hard base in a fridge. Good for fermenting where only warmth, (belt, etc.), is required as this could be done with space underneath to fit the taller SodaStream

 

- The 2 (or is it 2.5) year expiry on the FV is simply there to meet Au PV regulations, it is suggested that they will prob last longer pressure brewing, but they may also not,,,,, Yes, arse covering but they do show the method for testing & sell the kit. Not too onerous or complicated really.

 

 

 

[Daz1525230139]

Spot on mate. My next brew will be full pressure ferment without spunding. Im figuring that at 18 deg at end of ferment i should have fully carbed beer. All experimental of course.

Has anyone tried bottling their carbonated beer' date=' (via natural fermentation build up with high spunding setting, or, chilled with several days top pressure from cylinder), and stepping down to a fine line, (2-3mmID), fill tube for the bottling? We used to get tank samples that were almost headless from chilled pressure vessels at my old brewery this way, but not sure if bottling speed would become a factor at home. The colder the better in this case and prechilled bottles would help too! New to 'the club' & 1st "Armageddon IPA" just about finished Ferm after a RoboBrew purchase too!! I'm EXCITED!

BTW, did 2x 50g dry hops & found that 'massaging' the collection pot got it all moving/mixing/degassed well after it had hydrated. Not sure if doing this will harm the bottle integrity or future sterility as there are some shallow creases, (not opaque but 'feelable'), in its walls now. Will email KegKing re this query soon.[/quote']"Mr Keg King" replied to me re bottling a fully carbed beer & said yes, it's possible if you use ~2m of 4mm line prior & all is close to zero degrees. Other places talk of line size changes causing CO2 breakout & foaming so best to not step UP a size once you have reduced to the finer diameter. This would mean using a fine tube bottle filler or just the thin line itself & shutoff valve (or pinch your soft tubing?) I guess. Still not sure if top pressure ONLY without mixing will 'layer' CO2 in the beer so only the top becomes gassy? ..... trials?....ideas?

[Otto Von Blotto]

There's no such thing as layering of CO2 dissolved in liquid. It doesn't work that way, if it's dissolved into the liquid then it is at equal amounts all through it, if it's not dissolved into the liquid then it's still in the headspace and hasn't entered the liquid yet. Just the same as there's no layering of anything else fully dissolved in liquid. Once it's dissolved properly it stays that way unless it reaches saturation point. If there is layering present then the solute is not fully dissolved or it's at saturation point. You never see sugar or coloring settling out in a bottle of cordial concentrate for instance.

 

Take a standard keg, most cats carbonate through the top via the gas in, i.e. essentially just pressurising the headspace. Over time, the pressure causes the beer to absorb the gas until the pressure in the beer is the same as the headspace. The beer out dip tube is in the bottom of the keg... so if this layering existed then you wouldn't be pouring carbonated beer until the beer at the top of the keg reached the bottom, which clearly isn't the case.

 

If you leave a keg sitting on serving pressure, it takes about 1-2 weeks to carbonate properly but if you try it each day, you can notice the carbonation level gradually increasing. This doesn't mean it's taking time for the gas to reach the bottom of the keg, it's just taking time to dissolve the amount of gas needed to carbonate it to the desired level. The thing is that it needs to be left sitting on that pressure long enough to fully carbonate the beer. I carbonate my kegs in about 24 hours using a higher pressure setting, then revert to serving pressure to keep it there until the keg runs dry.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Daz1525230139]

There's no such thing as layering of CO2 dissolved in liquid. It doesn't work that way' date=' if it's dissolved into the liquid then it is at equal amounts all through it, if it's not dissolved into the liquid then it's still in the headspace and hasn't entered the liquid yet. Just the same as there's no layering of anything else fully dissolved in liquid. Once it's dissolved properly it stays that way unless it reaches saturation point. If there is layering present then the solute is not fully dissolved or it's at saturation point. You never see sugar or coloring settling out in a bottle of cordial concentrate for instance.

 

Take a standard keg, most cats carbonate through the top via the gas in, i.e. essentially just pressurising the headspace. Over time, the pressure causes the beer to absorb the gas until the pressure in the beer is the same as the headspace. The beer out dip tube is in the bottom of the keg... so if this layering existed then you wouldn't be pouring carbonated beer until the beer at the top of the keg reached the bottom, which clearly isn't the case.

 

If you leave a keg sitting on serving pressure, it takes about 1-2 weeks to carbonate properly but if you try it each day, you can notice the carbonation level gradually increasing. This doesn't mean it's taking time for the gas to reach the bottom of the keg, it's just taking time to dissolve the amount of gas needed to carbonate it to the desired level. The thing is that it needs to be left sitting on that pressure long enough to fully carbonate the beer. I carbonate my kegs in about 24 hours using a higher pressure setting, then revert to serving pressure to keep it there until the keg runs dry.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey[/quote']Beauty ta, I was worried a lack of circulation (&/or agitation), plus high CO2 vapor pressure AT surface meant it would be having problems becoming homogeneous down deep. Think I'll bump up my pressure to ~1.1bar at 1'C and wait another day or two. 3days at ~0.8bar which is in theory to get around 2 volumes hadn't done it.

Ta, Daz

[Otto Von Blotto]

My kegs usually run at about 11PSI at 0 degrees +/- 1 degree. That gives me around 2.6-2.7 vols. Of course it takes longer than 3 days at that pressure, more like the 1-2 weeks mentioned, which is why I run it at 45PSI for 24 hours initially to get it up closer a lot faster and then drop it back down to maintain.

 

I understand it's different in a plastic fermenter though, so running at a lower pressure for a longer period is probably better and safer as well.

 

It's not a lot different to carbonating it naturally, while the gas is produced inside the beer and some no doubt stays in there, most of it still rises up into the headspace of the bottle or keg and has to be reabsorbed into the beer. Whatever you do, agitating it to try to "mix" the gas is never an option, all you'll wind up doing is introducing oxygen, which is fine if you want a cardboard or sherry flavored beer

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Morrie]

Does anyone know if leaving a keg on serving pressure for an extended time after optimal carbonation has been reached if this extended time will over carbonate a keg?

 

I run around 11 to 12 psi and some kegs can last for up to 6 weeks. I tend to think they may be becoming a bit over carbed. I originally fast carbed then tried Kelsey's method of 24hr carbing but I now seem to have enough kegs in the pipeline that I just whack them on serving pressure and they go straight into refrigeration on kegging day.

[Otto Von Blotto]

No it won't, once it reaches equilibrium in relation to the pressure and temperature it won't carbonate any further regardless of how long it sits in there. The only way it would carbonate further is if the temp was dropped, the pressure was increased, or both. Mine often sit on serving pressure for 5 or 6 weeks as well and while they do foam up more on the first pour as they get near empty, the beer itself is still at the same carbonation level it was at the beginning.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Benny1525229562]

Otto,

If I ferment under pressure @20degC and set the relief valve to 27.6psi, which according to a keg carbonation calculator would be 2.5volumes of CO2. Ferment until FG, drop pressure then cold crashed to serving temp. Would the beer maintain the same CO2 volume as the temperature drops?

[Morrie]

Yep - just taken the plunge and ordered a Fermentasaurus with pressure kit. Should be here next week and look forward to pressure brewing and transferring to keg without any oxygen exposure.

 

Thought I'd ask some of you about your Fermentasauruses and how you are going with them and what do you think and do you have any tips to a Fermentasaurus newbie.

 

I also ordered a spunding valve but I'm not sure if it is entirely necessary. Should I ferment at full pressure which I believe is around 35psi PRV blow off or run a spunding valve to around 15 psi or whatever? I'm not bottling. Could I potentially overcarbonate running at 35psi at 18 degrees. I cold crash so that 35psi I would expect to be somewhat reduced, but by how much?

 

Downside is I can only brew one brew at a time as I can only fit one Fermentasaurus in my brew fridge. I could always run a couple of Coopers FVs on occasion to play catch up.

[Marty_G]

Righto gang a change of tack, I have deleted the thread about brewing in a keg as i am now thinking of getting one of these, the pressurinsed model without the trub bottle as it is heaps shorter and cheaper. Those that use them can you tell me what the advangates are as oppsoed to normal fermentation and more improtantly is the beer better? 

 

Thanks  

[BlackSands]

20 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Righto gang a change of tack, I have deleted the thread about brewing in a keg as i am now thinking of getting one of these, the pressurinsed model without the trub bottle as it is heaps shorter and cheaper. Those that use them can you tell me what the advangates are as oppsoed to normal fermentation and more improtantly is the beer better? 

There's anecdotal accounts that beer tastes better when fermented under pressure and from what I can gather it generally benefits lagers far more than ales as these can be fermented at ale-like temperatures -  so fermented faster.  Also, things like lower ester production, lower fusels etc are usually cited, but to be honest how big a problem are these anyway?  A series of double blind tests done by you-know-who found no significant difference in the final beers.   A study done in Endinburgh in the 80's did actually find that at higher pressures there were actually noticeable downsides when fermenting under pressure, though these effects were observed at pressures around 35psi or more.

One key advantage of these kind of fermenters, is in fact the trub bottle which provides a simple method of dumping/collecting yeast and trub.  And like a unitank you do also have the option then of carbonating in the FV toward the end of fermentation and even serving directly from the vessel, though this may not actually be advisable without a trub collection bottle. 

 

 

[Marty_G]

Thanks @BlackSands ... I have been doing quite a bit of reading about this over the last couple of days and I am not entirely sure of the cost benefit. From what I gather the majority of the benifts are when brewing lagers and I don't really do that many lagers.  Also those benifits can be gained by brewing in a keg rather than using a dedicated conical unitank.  What I have seen which caught my interest is the improved clarity in some examples on YouTube. However, the improved clarity had more to do with racking using the floating dip tube rather than the pressurisation process.  One of the other benifits of naturally carbonating the beer so it can get from keg to glass quicker is not an issue for me as I have the capacity to age the beer. I have more kegs than I need.  Also as you stated there seems to be no taste benefits, lager excluded, so maybe it's an investment I dont need.  Right now I am probably better invest the money into a BIAB system which will 100% improve my beer and when I do want to brew some lagers do them under pressure in a keg.    Thanks for the input, writing that response has given me some clarity.  

Cheers

[PaddyBrew2]

I’m getting the fermzilla all rounder after the Christmas.  Gonna get it with the pressure kit and spunding valve/blowtie thingy

been also reading up on fermenting under pressure etc and the benefits.  Also oxygen free transfer to the keg is another benefit.  You can also go grain to glass in five or six days. It’s win win. And the price point is very attractive 

[Red devil 44]

I have also been doing some research on the Fermzilla, and watched some You Tube vids. At this point I am still unsure on whether to buy one or not ?

After fermentation I rack into my keg via a transfer hose, and as soon as it is full & the lid goes on the keg, I burp 4 or 5 times, gas up to 40 PSI then leave, could be 3 months before I get to my keg for chilling & gassing up, and I never have any problems with oxygen in my beer.

I understand the theory behind the closed transfer but I guess with my process it’s the old “ if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it “, or if it works for you then leave it.

For now I’ll leave it & check reviews & watch a few more You Tube vids.

Just my opinion 

Cheers

[Marty_G]

I think if I was just getting into kegging I would seriously think about the Unitank options. Brew and serve from same vessel would be very attractive for the price as they are so much cheaper than new Cornies. The more I think about it the  closer I get to buying a spunding valve and a floating dip tube so I can brew lagers under pressure in my 25 litre keg. Then transfer those to my 19L and 12 litre keg.  If I am happy with that I will try an ale but from what I have read the real benefits are when brewing lagers, as I have already said.  

[BlackSands]

On 12/21/2019 at 1:23 PM, MartyG1525230263 said:

... and more importantly is the beer better? 

I remembered I was also going to query this but I forgot!   

I do wonder if when we consider purchasing new brewing gear or look at changing some aspect of our process etc whether a better question we should ask ourselves is "is there actually anything wrong with the beer I'm currently brewing?"   I regularly read brewers stating that they are very happy with their beer and they often believe it to be superior to many commercial offerings. I'm one of them.  So that does leave me wondering what it is folks are actually trying to achieve?  I have a feeling it's not really about improving the quality of the beer...  we know we can already make great tasting beer in the most basic of equipment, using excellent quality ingredients that are available these days.  I think the 'gear lust' is probably more about looking for increased convenience, streamlining and simplifying aspects of the process so we can continue to make and drink great beer with even greater ease!  

Edited December 22, 2019 by BlackSands

[Red devil 44]

19 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

I remembered I was also going to query this but I forgot!   

I do wonder if when we consider purchasing new brewing gear or look at changing some aspect of our process etc whether a better question we should ask ourselves is "is there actually anything wrong with the beer I'm currently brewing?"   I regularly read brewers stating that they are very happy with their beer and they often believe it to be superior to many commercial offerings. I'm one of them.  So that does leave me wondering what it is folks are actually trying to achieve?  I have a feeling it's not really about improving the quality of the beer...  we know we can already make great tasting beer in the most basic of equipment, using excellent quality ingredients that are available these days.  I think the 'gear lust' is probably more about looking for increased convenience, streamlining and simplifying aspects of the process so we can continue to make and drink great beer with even greater ease!  

Spot on Black Sands