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3.0 vols CO2 !


BlackSands

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NIIICE!

 

That range is just perfect for beer. 60 psi is a shade over 4 volumes of CO2.

 

Some bottle Saison in champagne bottles, with special larger crown seals 'Tirage' caps, so that they can carbonate to 5 vols = 72.5psi.

 

At that pressure you would be at a 'red alert' for a PET.

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And the 1/4 inch BSP hardware would be easy to find at a plumbers store. Bunnings does not have much 1/4 inch, mainly half inch for the brass plumbing stuff.

 

I just bought a 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch brass adapter to use a spare 9kg gas bottle with my new three ring burner which I managed to buy without the reg and lead. bought that for heating water in a pot really fast for my step mashing. Not at bunnings but easy to find at this pluming supplies store 'Plumbers cooperative' up the rd

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How old are your PETs?
I bought about 45 new but then I scored another 100 750ml PETs of various vintages second-hand for $1.

 

The first few failures I experienced though were actually new bottles.

 

What's ironic is that I also use 1.25 litre Homebrand soft drink bottles' date=' it's actually CHEAPER to buy these and throw away the fizzy sugar-water! They do however seem thinner and a tad more 'disposable' [b']BUT[/b], in contrast I have not had a single one of them fail in over a year now. Meanwhile, I've lost about 30 'brewers' PETS so far. annoyed Most just develop a micro-leak but I've had two that have blown their asses right out! surprised

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I use 2.1 vols for everything now and it's spot on. That's 4.5gms p/- litre

Give it a go, (bro)

 

Last time I did 3 vols was a few weeks back with a hefe. Short answer of the experience? Nooooooooo... pinchedunsure lets just say it was pretty hairy recovering the capped up bottles

 

lol

 

It's got me stumped how alot of other well respected brewers here are getting good results at the 7g mark but it's obviously working for them

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I use 2.1 vols for everything now and it's spot on. That's 4.5gms p/- litre

Give it a go' date=' (bro)

 

Last time I did 3 vols was a few weeks back with a hefe. Short answer of the experience? Nooooooooo... [img']pinched[/img]unsure lets just say it was pretty hairy recovering the capped up bottles

 

lol

 

It's got me stumped how a lot of other well respected brewers here are getting good results at the 7g mark but it's obviously working for them

 

Well, ordinarily 7g/l is probably about as high as I'd ever go for the styles I like to brew, which is a little more than this one was to get it up to 3 vols. It's just that something reinvigorated the yeast and caused it to attenuate much further once it was in the bottle.

 

I brewed a mild a while back primed at 2.1 vols, which for that brew was around 100g table sugar in a 23l batch. It seemed way too flat to me, and it was cooler then too. Recently an APA I primed at around 2.5 actually seems about right to me... pours a nice manageable head with a good level of carbonation. I think my lower threshold for lower-carb'd styles will likely be more around 2.3vols (120 - 130g). I bottled a PA in the weekend with 130g (2.4) so it'll be interesting to see how that works out.

 

I'm a little unclear about how BS calculates priming levels though, the numbers seem to vary from brew to brew and I don't know what the variable is that's causing it to differ? E.g. it tells me 153g sugar to achieve 3 vols in my saison, but in say an APA it suggests I'd need 175g unsure (not that I'd actually carbonate an APA to that level of course). Also, BS differs to the figures offered up by online priming calculators? So, really it's looking a lot like that determining suitable priming levels not only comes down to personal preference but also trail and error!

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The only variables that should cause it to differ would be the batch size and the fermentation profile, unless you accidentally ticked dextrose on one of them instead of cane sugar.

 

I used to prime most of my batches with 8g/L although that was using dextrose. It works out at about 7g/L of table sugar though. None of them was overcarbonated, they all turned out perfectly fine and poured easily with a nice head. Certainly none of this 90% foam in a glass and what not.

 

Maybe some of the bottles are a bit roughed up on the inside and creating nucleation points when opened, maybe there are bits of hop matter in there doing the same thing. Either one will cause them to foam over upon opening.

 

If something is causing the yeast to slacken off before fermentation is finished and then start up again in the bottles then it's a process issue, or perhaps the wort isn't nutritious enough for the yeast, or maybe there wasn't enough oxygen in the wort at pitching time. Whatever the case is, the yeast are becoming lazy and that problem needs to be fixed before you will achieve any sort of consistency with natural carbonation.

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Maybe the heat here does play a part in carbing. My beers are a tadd what some might call undercarbed at a week in 30 odd degree heat but after 5-8 they're perhaps even a tadd livelier than I'd prefer but in between 2-5 or so they're fantastic so going by that I could imagine it probable they'd take alot longer in cooler conditions.

 

I'm also talking bulk priming (not sure how everyone is priming) because John Palmer states straight sucrose is actually quite hard for yeast to break down completely so boiling remedies this (apparently) could be another possibility anyway

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It shouldn't make any difference if they've been in the fridge for long enough after carbonation is complete. Higher temperature might cause them to carbonate faster but it won't cause the yeast to produce more gas from the same amount of priming sugar than it would at a lower temp. Recently I bottled a few from a lager batch; these sat in the brew fridge at 0C for two days straight after being bottled as I was crashing a starter, and then rose to 18 when I began fermenting the next ale. They fully carbonated four days after they rose in temp.

 

Sucrose is made up of one unit each of glucose and fructose, it's a disaccharide the same as maltose is, which is two glucose units joined together. I think based on that, that it's a mistake to lump it in with the 'simple' sugars when maltose seemingly isn't considered as such. Dextrose is just another name for glucose, it is a simple sugar and perhaps this is the reason people use it for priming over table sugar - it's easier for the yeast to work on.

 

A quick search reveals that to invert the sugar (break apart the glucose and fructose molecules), best results are achieved by acidifying the mixture with citric acid or cream of tartar at 1g per kg of sugar, or just lemon juice at 10mL per kg of sugar, then boiling it to reach 114C. Another option is to mix two parts sugar to one part water without the acid and simmer it for about 5-7 minutes, although this doesn't invert as much of it.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

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The only variables that should cause it to differ would be the batch size and the fermentation profile' date=' unless you accidentally ticked dextrose on one of them instead of cane sugar. [/quote']I'll have a closer look, but I know I've selected table sugar on each and batch size is the same. All my PM recipes are very similar in that they include a Coopers can plus 2.5kg (give or take) of grains. pouty

 

If something is causing the yeast to slacken off before fermentation is finished and then start up again in the bottles then it's a process issue, or perhaps the wort isn't nutritious enough for the yeast, or maybe there wasn't enough oxygen in the wort at pitching time. Whatever the case is, the yeast are becoming lazy and that problem needs to be fixed before you will achieve any sort of consistency with natural carbonation.

Hmmmm... I've been getting lively carbonation in several other brews too, though not as dramatic as this one as they were carb'd to a lower level. As mentioned previously, this seems to be a Summer-time issue only and I'm a little doubtful that in all those other brews the yeast 'went to sleep' while they were sitting at the predicted FG for a week, and then 'woke up' in the bottle to then not only consume priming sugar but attenuate further beyond that. unsure I guess what I should do is measure the SG on another brew and see if it too has change since it was bottled.

 

Maybe the heat here does play a part in carbing.
Ambient temperatures definitely do seem to be having a notable impact. If there's a fixed amount of CO2 in the bottle, the temperature determines how much of that is in solution and how much fills the airspace above. The pressure in the bottle is certainly higher when it's warmer. But of course when the bottle is opened it's been chilled to fridge temp, so hmmm..... curious.

 

 

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Maybe the heat here does play a part in carbing.
Ambient temperatures definitely do seem to be having a notable impact. If there's a fixed amount of CO2 in the bottle' date=' the temperature determines how much of that is in solution and how much fills the airspace above. The pressure in the bottle is certainly higher when it's warmer. But of course when the bottle is opened it's been chilled to fridge temp, so hmmm..... curious.

[/quote']That's exactly my point, if they're left in the fridge long enough to absorb the CO2 fully then it shouldn't matter what temperature they were carbonated at, they should still open without a volcano and display the same level of carbonation all the time.

 

Yeast can also release an enzyme that breaks down the unfermentable sugars into fermentable ones, this is usually the reason why beers that are left to age for a while sometimes become over carbed during that time. It shouldn't happen in a matter of weeks but I guess it's possible.

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Yeast can also release an enzyme that breaks down the unfermentable sugars into fermentable ones' date=' this is usually the reason why beers that are left to age for a while sometimes become over carbed during that time. It shouldn't happen in a matter of weeks but I guess it's possible.[/quote']In the case of this saison, it's been bottled now for 6.5 weeks. There's actually not much of it left now so the problem will soon be... err... down the toilet lol
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I'd also like to know, too: do commercial breweries (like Coopers who bottle condition) ever have any worries in regard to a batch overcarbing? I could only imagine one mistake in a batch could cause some major panic in regards to bottle bombs. A small contamination could introduce a yeast whose able to ferment down past normal gravity

 

This has popped up because I've just given a few samplers to a neighbor and just envisioned the days of old where I had to wear glasses and pick up beers with a heavy towel. It simply wasn't safe until that cap came shooting off lol Any samplers given to friends would come with a stern warning, and their own towel too

 

Yea, I think that's what's happening with my older ag beers guys, 8 or so weeks in the heat and the yeast are slowly consuming more, previously unfermentable bits of stuff

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I'd also like to know' date=' too: do commercial breweries (like Coopers who bottle condition) pasturise their product before shipping it out? I could only imagine one mistake in a batch could cause some major panic in regards to bottle bombs

[/quote']

 

Beer relies on pH , alcohol and hops as preservatives in real beer

i know some breweries do pasteurise megaswill but Coopers do not .

Every drop is treated the same way and after removing all yeast and any particulates in beer the keg / bottle is filled and seeded with yeast and a precisely measured sugar dose .

Im yet to have the slow over carbing problem you guys are , i have stout thats nearly a year old and still not over carbed .

How are you cleaning / sanitising bottles ?

How sure are you that brew actually reached FG ?

Are you pitching enough yeast to ensure full attenuation ?

 

 

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Not overcarbed, just 'carbier' than they were by a tadd

 

In brief, My kit days were strewn with fizziness! I attribute to either unboiled local water, contamination or both (I never cleaned the innards of my spigots back then, do it every time they're used now) Even a couple gms priming sugar would yield bombs. Those days (I'm glad to report) are gone

 

Star San and a spray bottle has been one of the best things I've done for my brewing too. I just use ph strips to check viability and feel at rest from any form of sanitation issues

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I've had the slow overcarbonation happen once or twice but generally it didn't happen with aged beers in bottles. One batch of porter overcarbonated but it was like that from the get go so that one I think was a case of the yeast slacking off then re-awakening in the bottles. That resulted in the only two bottle bombs I've ever had in both stints of brewing I've done (I brewed kits for a couple of years about 15-16 years ago).

 

In contrast I bottled a batch of stout about 3 years ago and the last surviving bottles had actually largely lost their carbonation, and they're glass. Which reminds me, I should chuck the very last one in the fridge soon and drink it. The low carbonation does work extremely well with the syringe trick for making a creamy head like a Guinness though.

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i have stout thats nearly a year old and still not over carbed .
I just finished an old porter (8 months) which was fine too' date=' but it's initial carb level was quite low anyway.

 

How are you cleaning / sanitising bottles ?

How sure are you that brew actually reached FG ?

Are you pitching enough yeast to ensure full attenuation ?

In my case bottles are sanitised as they always are - with a soak in starsan. When my brews get down to estimated FG, and they usually do, I 'll leave them at least a week with occasional SG checks during that time. I'm not sure how you could be any more sure than that? unsure

Yeast pitch rates are ok.

 

It's just an odd thing that's happened with a few brews over the warmer months pouty

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
Well' date=' delivery ought to be within the next month, and if it works I'll probably end up making 15 of these.

 

I wonder if I should use some poor bottle as a guinea pig to see how much pressure it can withstand before blowing ...[/quote']

 

Stupid pressure gauge didn't arrive. I then bought a second one from a local supplier (still via eBay) and that one hasn't shown up either pinched Time to raise my concerns through eBay.

 

In the meantime though I have received 10 thermometer strips ... yay?

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