Scottie Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 I have picked up all the ingredients and this one is on the go tomorrow with a few little tweaks. First up the Munich is giving way to Caramalt and more Ale malt - true to the original. Second up I am doing another side by side to see if the hops need tweaking. I need to compare the aroma in the original to that of the Buccaneer's. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtynidge Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I have picked up all the ingredients and this one is on the go tomorrow with a few little tweaks. First up the Munich is giving way to Caramalt and more Ale malt - true to the original.Second up I am doing another side by side to see if the hops need tweaking. I need to compare the aroma in the original to that of the Buccaneer's. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Looking forward to seeing how it goes. This is one I've been trying to clone for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted April 22, 2017 Author Share Posted April 22, 2017 Well after two side by side tastings I'm convinced I'm not far away. Looking for a touch more Mosaic aroma here while ensuring that I don't get to IPA levels of skunk. Buccaneer's Pale Ale V1.1 (AKA Accidental Mosaic) Water Ca 89.4 Mg 4.2 Na 3.6 S04 146.4 Cl 54.4 HC03 13.1 20 litres 4.30 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (3.9 EBC) 0.30 kg CaraMalt (40.0 EBC) 0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) 0.10 kg Acid Malt (5.9 EBC) 10.00 g Magnum [11.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min 20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min 15.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 20.0 min 10.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 8.0 min 10.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 5.0 min 20.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min 10.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min Safale American US-05 20.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 10.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 In a display of my lack of brewing ability I've gone the wrong way and the recipe above is not at all like the original. Too much Mosaic and too much caramel malt. I've ended up with one of the hoppy mosaics that everyone is brewing, so it's good just not a PL Pale Ale clone I still have grapefruit up front, then I get some sweet mango (Mosaic combined with the Caramalt and Crystal I think). The finish isn't as bitter with the FG finishing three points higher than the first one. Not as moreish as either the PL or my clone, which isn't necessary as bad thing Now I know what Mosaic brings to the table, Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Hi Scottie, Inspired by your initial post in this thread, I tried to make a Mosaic and Cascade APA using a Coopers kit as the base, a partial mash. I just bottled it and the bottling leftovers were very tasty: 1.7kg Coopers OS Lager kit BBE 2/65/2018 @ 12 months 1.3kg bulk light LME 250gm CMC Munich partial-mash x 45 minutes 250gm malted rye partial-mash x 45 minutes 5gm Mosaic hops boiled x 20 minutes in wort 5gm Cascades hops boiled x 20 minutes 5gm Mosaic hops boiled x 5 minutes 5gm Cascades hops boiled x 5 minutes 22L water sloppy slurry from batch made with the Coopers Ale/Lager blend, fermented at 18C. 10gm Mosaic DH at beginning of cold crash, which started on day 8. 10gm Cascades DH at beginning of cold crash, which started on day 8. Due to going away on vacation, this brew sat in the FV for nearly a month. It was "cold hopped" for almost three weeks. This is not my normal practice and I was worried about the prolonged dry hop producing grassy flavours and ruining it, but it seems to be okay, probably because it was done at cold crash temps 0.3C. This is the second time I am using Mosaic; the first was Mosaic by itself. Based on the bottling leftovers, I do prefer the combo with Cascades. It is very grapefruit-y; it seems the Cascades hops are dominating. I am curious how it will taste after it is carbed up. Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 Hey Christina, I'm not convinced about the grassiness from a prolonged dry hop, perhaps is depends on the duration and the temperature of the FV This one of mine was dry hopped after two weeks and spent another two weeks in the FV, around 1 week cold crashing. It is without doubt the best beer I have brewed I know I've made this call before with several beers, however you would expect to get better at brewing wouldn't you . As for your recipe I love Cascade and I do prefer the grapefruit tones it throws at the beer in a 20 minute boil. In my original recipe the Cascade dominated, in taste rather than aroma. In the second the Mosaic is definitely on the table, I call it Mango and I've never had anything like it in a beer be it commercial or homebrewed; I hope I can get it again. Remembering that my brew was an accident, I think the secret is in matching or being close to the Cascade in the mid boil and then increasing the Mosaic at the flameout and dry hop stage. This is what I tried to do, what I didn't expect was the results. I know your not a big fan of bitterness Christina (we all know there's enough of that in the world already ), so if you brew it again I would stick with your 20 minute and 5 minute additions, add 20 minute steep of Mosaic, and then increase the Mosaic dry hop to double that of the Cascade. I am being 100% honest when I describe the impression that we (5 tasters) all got at the first sampling of the beer. It was like there was a shot of Mango juice sitting in the middle of the glass (that is mango juice somehow surrounded by beer). In fact my son in law said "You've squirted some fruit juice into the glass haven't you?". "No way I'm just a very good brewer" Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 PS Christina My advice above is only if you want something like my second recipe. For me I am that impressed with the second recipe that I won't be trying to improve the first, I will settle for the fact that apart from the colour I nailed a Pirate Life Clone. The next premium strength Ale that I brew will be recipe two, and I would like to try and get that flavour and balance into a 4% brew. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corksniffer Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Nice work Scotty! I'll bet the clone turned out lighter in malt sweetness, complexity and hue than the original and much lighter on hop flavour and aroma. This beer is mostly hop-bursted with little to no traditional 60 minute bittering addition and all character from mass amounts of aromatic hops maximum 20 minutes and under. I prefer 15 max with majority in the whirlpool You'll notice that Pirate Life pale ale when poured closely resembles an English bitter or amber ale due to larger amounts of crystal and cara malts. These two points are key in the PL pale. Try closer to 160 -200gms of late hops for an almost indistinguishable clone. Try no 60 minute addition to match the smooth bitterness which also allows for more aroma hops. A little more info here https://byo.com/mead/item/2519-what-is-hopbursting-and-what-can-i-expect-from-this-technique Enjoy! Hey Brew Dudes I've tried to clone a number of beers over the past 5 1/2 years of brewing and TBTH I never really pulled it off. Many iterations of LCPA saw me brewing an IPA with Cascade and Galaxy' date=' my Pacific Ale was more bitter as intended, and I never really succeeded with my DSGA. Brewed some great beers but never a dead ringer clone. I think I've pulled it off, first attempt so I am assuming it is a fairly easy beer to clone. Used most of the ingredients off the can excepting I didn't have Caramalt so I subbed in some Munich. [u']Buccaneer's Pale Ale[/u] 4.00 kg Gladfiled American Ale Malt 0.50 kg Munich Malt 0.30 kg Crystal Malt 0.10 kg Acid Malt Mashed at 66 degrees for 60 minutes, batch sparge. 10.00 g Magnum - Boil 60. min 20.00 g Cascade - Boil 20.0 min 15.00 g Mosaic - Boil 20.0 min 10.00 g Cascade - Boil 8.0 min 10.00 g Mosaic - Boil 5 min 20.00 g Cascade - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min 15.00 g Mosaic - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min US05 15.00 g Cascade - Dry Hop Day 11 10.00 g Mosaic - Dry Hop Day 11 20 litres OG 1.050 FG 1.010 5.4% ABV (Please note if you brew this my efficiency is only 70%) Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 .....This beer is mostly hop-bursted with little to no traditional 60 minute bittering addition and all character from mass amounts of aromatic hops maximum 20 minutes and under. I prefer 15 max with majority in the whirlpool ...... Try closer to 160 -200gms of late hops for an almost indistinguishable clone. Try no 60 minute addition to match the smooth bitterness which also allows for more aroma hops. ... Hey Corka Thanks for the feedback' date=' the only issue I have is either we're drinking different beers or my taste buds are totally shot. I had two Pirate Life Pale Ales from the blue can yesterday and I get nothing like your assessment. I get the bitter grapefruit that I normally get from Cascade in a 20 minute boil and I get a hint of fruit (I call it mango) from the Mosaic. Not what I'd call a hop burst. Why are my taste buds shot? You can see from my blind tasting in this post that two of the four tastings were indiscernible by me. In my second attempt I ramped up the late additions of Mosaic to see if I could get four out of four samples to match. The result was what I would call a hop burst with bitter grapefruit and a big smack of Mango. Nothing like the Pale Ale Blue Can that I was trying to emulate, but something I will be brewing again and again. I'll bet the clone turned out lighter in malt sweetness, complexity Once again my original clone was spot on with the original in this aspect, again poor taste buds or a different beer. My second attempt is much like your description, yet again IMHO nothing like the Blue Can I was trying to emulate. Perhaps I have had too many hops over the years and I just don't get it anymore. I do however get more of a hop burst from the other three Pirate Life staples, the Throwback, IPA and IIPA. In fact when I popped the lid on the can of IIPA the hop aroma almost sat me on my arse. It was similar with the IPA. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 I am not as refined and descriptive with my tastings, however this review by the Crafty Pint pretty well fits my impressions of the PL Pale Ale and my clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Hi Scottie' date=' Inspired by your initial post in this thread, I tried to make a Mosaic and Cascade APA using a Coopers kit as the base, a partial mash. I just bottled it and the bottling leftovers were very tasty: 1.7kg Coopers OS Lager kit BBE 2/65/2018 @ 12 months 1.3kg bulk light LME 250gm CMC Munich partial-mash x 45 minutes 250gm malted rye partial-mash x 45 minutes 5gm Mosaic hops boiled x 20 minutes in wort 5gm Cascades hops boiled x 20 minutes 5gm Mosaic hops boiled x 5 minutes 5gm Cascades hops boiled x 5 minutes 22L water sloppy slurry from batch made with the Coopers Ale/Lager blend, fermented at 18C. 10gm Mosaic DH at beginning of cold crash, which started on day 8. 10gm Cascades DH at beginning of cold crash, which started on day 8. Due to going away on vacation, this brew sat in the FV for nearly a month. It was "cold hopped" for almost three weeks. This is not my normal practice and I was worried about the prolonged dry hop producing grassy flavours and ruining it, but it seems to be okay, probably because it was done at cold crash temps 0.3C. This is the second time I am using Mosaic; the first was Mosaic by itself. Based on the bottling leftovers, I do prefer the combo with Cascades. It is very grapefruit-y; it seems the Cascades hops are dominating. I am curious how it will taste after it is carbed up. Cheers, Christina.[/quote'] Just an update now that this batch is carbed and I have started drinking it. For whatever reason, this batch is foaming up and cascading out of the bottle on its own. Mostly foam when poured, like what BlackSands described in another thread. It is cloudy too of course, due to the foaming. But the taste is good, very grapefruit-y. I am not sure about mango; that is a maybe. There is a bit of spice? That might be the rye. It is very tasty and does not seem infected....I did use a bit more priming sugar than I usually do. Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Hey Christina I love the grapefruit tones that Cascade throws off. Its a PITA when you get a beer that doesn't pour right, especially when your thirsty. Hopefully the other bottles will be better. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 It's alright Scottie, I wouldn't describe PL pale ale as a hop burst either. I had a glass of it on tap back in February and while it was nice, it seemed as if the caramel malts and bitterness were the main two flavors in it, there wasn't as much in the way of hop flavor or aroma that I've tasted in other pale ales including my own brewed ones. Maybe my tastebuds are shot too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Scottie, I brewed Xenon's recipe and did a side-by-side tasting of the PLPA blue can and my HB the other month. Got my wife to do the pour and did a blind-tasting and it was so easy to pick my one. Aromatic, hop forward, zingy with flavour. the PLPA can was dull in comparison. I used to love this beer, so maybe my tastebuds are like yours and Kelseys... "S-hopped". The can wasn't the freshest, I should have checked the underside before I bought it. Canned Feb 2017 from memory, so perhaps wasn't a fair comparison. Nevertheless, I preferred mine as it was way more bursting with late hop goodness. Will definitely be brewing it again, no change to recipe whatsoever. Was no-chilled as well. Yum, making me thirsty to brew this recipe again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 I still think the Pl Pale Ale is a cracking beer, just not a hop burst. My second attempt, my Accidental Mosaic, is also a cracker and it is a hop burst for sure. As far as homebrew goes, I think I prefer the Accidental Mosaic, so for The PL I reckon I'll just keep buying the odd six pack. It is the least I can do for these guys as I'm really impressed with their brand. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Cracking beer! I recently brewed this and it hasn't hung around long' date=' I would say it is my best beer to date. It is very similar to your recipe, just up a bit on the hops. https://club.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/15680/[/quote'] Hey nidge I checked out Xenon's brew and I will give it a go at some stage, however IMHO even though the ingredients are the same the brews are quite different given batch size and amount of late hopping. Of course I am only surmising as I haven't tried Xenon's brew, however the brewing software predicts my IBU at 49.4 and Xenon's at 38.6 IBU which in my experience is quite noticeable. The Pirate Life web site states an IBU of 50 and my recipe was intended to clone the original. I don't normally brew beer this bitter but something about this bitter grapefruit drags me in as I wouldn't say I was a massive fan on first taste. Once I nail this clone I will have a crack at the Xenon recipe, as I respect the +ve feedback you and others are giving - and good beer is what we all want to try. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Given how good my Accidental Mosaic is, I'm not sure I want to take the time to brew Xenon's now or not. So many beers(recipes) so little time. Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtynidge Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Scottie, I've had a quick search but can't find anything on your Accidental Mosaic, would love to have a crack at it. Do you mind pointing me in the right direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joolbag Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hey Scottie, PL will always be my beer of choice if I go to a pub where it is on tap. Like you, I fully support the brewery and seek out their commercial releases. I seem to buy mostly Pirate Life, Modus Operandi and Balter. Have you tried the PL stout? I am not a stout man myself, but appreciated the beer. Given it is not my style, I am unlikely to go back to it. Their big can of PL Mosaic IPA was great! I loved it. Will definitely be buying more when I get to my good bottleshop that stocks craft beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Scottie' date=' I've had a quick search but can't find anything on your Accidental Mosaic, would love to have a crack at it. Do you mind pointing me in the right direction?[/quote'] Post 28, 29 & 30 of this thread. I have added the words Accidental Mosaic at the head of the recipe at post 28. Cheers & Beers Scottie Valley Brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alilley Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 On 2/26/2017 at 8:43 PM, Scottie said: Quote Mate' date=' that looks good. Do you chill? Cheers, Andrew[/quote'] Good point Andrew I use a plate chiller: 20 minute steep after flameout Whirlpool 10 minute rest 5 minutes into FV at 21 degrees Hi there. I am going to attempt to recreate something similar to your brew here using the TC bootmakers kit. I'm not sure how the Chilling and the steep from the quoted post interract. Is the chill after the steep/whirlpool or during the steep? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 12/14/2020 at 7:38 PM, alilley said: Hi there. I am going to attempt to recreate something similar to your brew here using the TC bootmakers kit. I'm not sure how the Chilling and the steep from the quoted post interract. Is the chill after the steep/whirlpool or during the steep? Cheers. Hey Dude, I've been off the air foe a while, I hope someone else helped you out with this brew. you must be close to drinking it now, how did it turn out. Cheers & Beers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alilley Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Scottie said: Hey Dude, I've been off the air foe a while, I hope someone else helped you out with this brew. you must be close to drinking it now, how did it turn out. Cheers & Beers Did partial mash for it, come to the boil I opened the freezer and realised I was out of cascade, no worries, will sub in chinook and half the quantities. allowed for cascade oil in the tin by leaving out the 20 min boil of cascade. Dropped temp to 80, did hop steep. Added the rest of the water. About midnight at this point, carried it outside to put in the water barrel. Fermenter slipped out of one hand, tipped downside upward, lid first onto concrete, smashed. It's currently very had for me to get TC tins out of Aus, will just do a partial with APA tin. Edited February 2, 2021 by alilley 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alilley Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Giving it another shot. Totally forgot I needed a tin as the base, raced down to the supermarket during the mash, got back and temp was 80C. Oh well, see how it goes. In the fermenter now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alilley Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 2 weeks in the bottle now. Very nice. Not really noticing any mango juice flavour, but then it wasn't the same recipe. I think I'll keep this as a bench mark APA. Next time I'll be dropping medium crystal in favour of light or toffee malt, move it in an XPA direction. Maybe it was because I used the mexican tin, but it could use a bigger bitterness hit imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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